Impressions of this forum

I happened to stumble across this website by accident. I've been in the lay sangha for over 25 yrs. now & I must say, there sure is a lot of nonsense about the Abbey & the OBC on this list. The people seem to be divided mainly into two groups, first, a [Admin delete] that seem to think they know better than anyone else how to organize & run a religious order, & secondly, a much larger bunch of [Admin delete]that just couldn't hack it at the Abbey, for whatever reasons. And some of the nasty diatribes about RMJK are disgusting! What a mess! I'll just have to go along with a friend who's also a long-time member of the lay sangha, who said that evidently some people think the Abbey is the "be all/end all" of training. They have also missed/misunderstood the teachings about clinging/letting go ......... it's pretty hard to sit and look at the wall properly and expect to move on down that path when you are being judgmental, bitter and clinging .......... your attention otherwise diverted from your training. You gotta feel kinda sorry for them ........ their hair is on fire and they are wasting good, valuable, time sitting idly chatting away their opportunities .......... doesn't sound like they have listened closely enough to the priceless training they have received.

Also, I notice that one of the list administrators uses the handle of [Admin delete] Makes me wonder if it might be the same person as that infamous former OBC monk, [Admin delete] that quit the Order & burned his silks in a fit of self-destructive ego rage about 20 years ago when he was passed over by RMJK to be her successor in favor of Rev. Eko instead. If so, I'd have to say wow ..... didn't think he'd still be hangin' around after that embarrassment. Good for him for being able to move on beyond such a personal disaster.

Segodon,

All members of this forum are required to abide by the rules if they want to participate. With your first post here you've broken several; please refer to the rules list to see which ones. This forum is oriented to civil expression, and personal attacks and name-calling will not be tolerated.

Your post will be edited to bring it into compliance. If you wish to continue to have the privilege of joining these conversations, please abide by the rules, otherwise your membership will be revoked.

Lise

@Segodon

I don't believe you served the monks and lay persons of Shasta Abbey, or the OBC, or the legacy of RMJK, well in your "defense." Other active members with positive outlooks seem to find a way to communicate on common ground.

Bill R.

Segodon wrote:

Also, I notice that one of the list administrators uses the handle of [Admin delete] Makes me wonder if it might be the same person as that infamous former OBC monk, [Admin delete] that quit the Order & burned his silks in a fit of self-destructive ego rage about 20 years ago when he was passed over by RMJK to be her successor in favor of Rev. Eko instead. If so, I'd have to say wow ..... didn't think he'd still be hangin' around after that embarrassment. Good for him for being able to move on beyond such a personal disaster.

Given the technical difficulty you had joining the forum it must have been important to you. Now that you have expressed all this bitterness and disgust do you feel better personally and do you believe, as a member of the lay Sangha, you are representing the OBC in a good way? I would encourage you to have a look at the many posts from Rev Seikai for an example of someone making an effort to represent the views of the OBC with integrity. It will require a similar effort on your part if you want to be taken seriously here. Regarding your personal attack against me I will only say that you know nothing about me. And as to RMJK's decision to make Rev Eko her successor I believe the facts show that it did not prove to be a good one.

I have to get up earlier and earlier to find time to do personal things, I have to say this post has made me smile,even though it is no smiling matter.
I hope no one has been hurt by what has been said.
The wonderful thing about sitting facing a wall, is that one can find ones own spirituality,it is as simple as that, when one is divided from ones depth of being,there is no peace no unity. Zen practice is unique as really no training is given and no teaching taught, But it is far too early to talk about such things, and hopefully you guys are already asleep
Take care my friends

Michael, I am not asleep yet, but soon will be. So nice you dropped in. A pity Cornwall is on the other side of the big puddle - wouldn't it be fun if we just bumped into one another and laugh.

That would be wonderful

I'd need to see the deleted words to know whether or not the OP was being rude

Isan.... you burned your robes? That is way cool! You've hit the top of the glorfindel kudos scale. (you were already quite high up in it).

GLORFINDEL

" burned your robes...way cool !"
Kudos too from me. I`m an OBC supporter but......

I`m laughing....Why am I laughing !! Love it.

Glorfindel...you`re a cheeky little zen dude. I love ya.

It appears to me Isan, that somethings were not burnt,you seem to have great integrity, desire for friendship, desire to resolve issues, and a willingness to put things down,and last but certainly not least a sincere wish to practice Buddhism.
At this time I would like you to know I respect these things about you

:-) Well said, CMH (-:

Dear Segodon--Speaking as a friend and occasional visitor and donor to Shasta Abbey, I think you'd do better to report your own positive experiences at SA and with the OBC, or object to specific claims made on this site (grab a quotation and explain what you think is wrong with it), than make categorical insinuations about the level of spiritual advancement on display. You *can* challenge others' views here and have your ideas treated with respect.

The pain reported here cannot be all boiled down to bitterness on the part of "defeated" former monks, save by glibness or ignorance. I wouldn't try to apply the Dharma here to claim that all of their suffering must have been self-created. It is an indictment of Buddhism itself to dismiss another's pain in this way. This is the very excuse that some Buddhists (evidently very poor in understanding) use for being indifferent to poverty. Why should we interfere with the karma that the poor have inherited?

Some of these former disciples have clearly endured a lot of pain as a result of others' actions while they were active at SA and other OBC temples. While I personally do not think that this is, or has been, the norm at SA, the stories of things going wrong are too consistent and independent to all be fabrications or self-justifying delusions.

It IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE that OBC Connect presents a highly critical--and IMO unbalanced, even unfair-- view of SA/OBC. There are at least a couple of rational reasons: 1) before this, there hasn't been a forum for former disciples to share their experiences; 2) there haven't been a lot of pro-OBC voices that have regularly contributed.

Maybe you can help balance the books (so to speak) by telling your story, and/or sharing with us some of the positive things going on at SA.

I hope you are well, and that we meet sometime at the abbey.

--Dan

P.S. Isan--Those who've never protested anything with their whole heart are either too young, or haven't been paying enough attention, or are afraid of their own authentic experience.

ddolmar

Well said Dan I couldn`t agree more, nor put it better.

Best wishes, Stan.

Stan Giko wrote:

GLORFINDEL

" burned your robes...way cool !"
Kudos too from me. I`m an OBC supporter but......

I`m laughing....Why am I laughing !! Love it.

Glorfindel...you`re a cheeky little zen dude. I love ya.

back at ya, bro.

Lise said:
"This forum is oriented to civil expression, and personal attacks and name-calling will not be tolerated."

Sorry Lise. Didn't realize that "PJ" & "WC" were considered personal attacks, especially since no personal names were mentioned.

Isan said:
"Given the technical difficulty you had joining the forum it must have been important to you."

Actually, you know nothing about how I joined the forum.

"Regarding your personal attack against me I will only say that you know nothing about me.

Sorry, Isan, wrong again. I mentioned that I've been a lay sangha member for over 25 yrs. Well, one of us (& yes, there's more than one of us using this e-mail adr.) has been a member for MUCH longer than that so yes, we DO know a lot about you, how you took part in the infamous "anti-RMJK conspiracy," which luckily failed, & the decent people retained control of the Abbey, thank goodness.

"And as to RMJK's decision to make Rev Eko her successor I believe the facts show that it did not prove to be a good one."

Um, actually, up to maybe about a yr. before he left, the facts DO show that it was a good decision. He certainly made a better abbot than you ever would have.

In any case, we're outta here. We can see that the majority of the members, or at least the posting ones, are arrogant & condescending, or else they're people who've shown that they can't handle REAL Zen Buddhism (sometimes both). No reason to stick around.

Segodon wrote:

We can see that the majority of the members, or at least the posting ones, are arrogant & condescending, or else they're people who've shown that they can't handle REAL Zen Buddhism (sometimes both). No reason to stick around.

Yikes, the wave is convinced it is separate from the ocean.

Of course *I've* never teed off on anyone here...I'm MUCH too holy for that sort of monkey-business.

Segadon, I hope all goes well for you and your wife.

Since it seems Segadon's objectives in starting this thread have been fulfilled, we'll call it a day and lock it later this evening. Last call for comments

Thanks, everyone.

Lise

hey segadon. chill dude. Stick around! So what if people here have different views and ways?

From What I know of Isan I think he'd make an awesome Abbot. Is it so bad to question a teacher?

"Heresy is the life of a Mythology and orthodoxy is the death." (Joseph Campbel)

Segodon wrote:

Sorry, Isan, wrong again. I mentioned that I've been a lay sangha member for over 25 yrs. Well, one of us (& yes, there's more than
one of us using this e-mail adr.) has been a member for MUCH longer than that so yes, we DO know a lot about you, how you took part in the infamous "anti-RMJK conspiracy," which luckily failed, & the decent people retained control of the Abbey, thank goodness.

Well Segodon, what I meant more precisely when I said you don't know anything about me is that a lot has happened in the almost thirty years since the events you make reference to occurred. And regarding those events how much do you really know first hand and how much is hearsay that you picked up from others? You could have told me who you are and we could have had a discussion, but instead you chose to hurl invectives from behind an anonymous ID. Unfortunately discussion is no longer an option for you since one of the forum admins has banned you.

For the record, I object to the ban of Segodon.

Ignorant of the rules as I am, however, it may be that the admin has their hands tied by them.

And I certainly can't blame Isan in particular for being ... miffed/enraged/hurt/whatever ... by Segodon's harsh and anonymously delivered attacks, which I think one has have every right to completely ignore until their provenance is more apparent, i.e., Segodon chooses to say who "they" are.

By the way, Seg, I hope to be up at the Abbey this weekend for the Sunday ceremony and Dharma Talk. Perhaps you'd be willing to introduce yourself in person, if you'll be attending as well. I would be pleased to meet you, and no I won't tell anyone at OBC Connect who you are without your consent.

--Dan (Dolmar)

For the record, Isan did not request any admin action in regard to Segodon. The decision was made by other admins, due to repeated violations of forum rules.

Lise