Phillip Kapleau

I might be a bit behind the times here,and this may even have been written about,if so sorry.

I read Phillip had an argument with Yasutani Roshi,on the last sesshim they did together.For some time it was not out in the open,and there was speculation about it. Eventually Phillip Kapleau disclosed that the argument was that Yasutani Roshi wanted him to attend sesshins with Eido Roshi and receive teaching from him,Phillip kapleau refused and they had an argument.

Now I may have all this wrong but if true I say good for Phillip Kapleau maybe he saw something he did not like and stood up to it,whereas everyone else did not want to rock the boat.It's for the greater good to keep quiet,heard that before a few times.

I think Mia mentioned that a few people were saying why do we keep banging the gong,my view on that is maybe we do keep banging the gong but we do have a right to,we may all see kennett Roshi from different angles my view is her behaviour and attitudes and experiences point for me that she did not have a great depth of understanding and hid it behind an cloak of authority that no one was allowed to look behind.The trouble with that is when one peeps one may see more than expected. It does not really matter if one does not have a great depth of understanding to me either,it is the pretending one has that is the problem.

I think Phillip Kapleau got a bit of stick for this argument maybe unneccessarily . Maybe you all knew this anyway it is all new to me

I think there is quite a back story between Kapleau and Yasutani. Some of this has been written about and posted on the web. Stuart Lachs has written something about this. I think even the Rochester Zen Center posted some essays.

Not unlike the situation with Kennett, especially with Japanese teachers, the human sides of their stories and personalities are hidden from view, denied. Kapleau and Yasutani did have a major falling out. I don't think that Kapleau was ever authorized to teach by Yasutani, did not receive transmission, or any titles. Remember, Yasutani was quite the task master, probably a control freak of the highest order, and a right wing war promoter.

If you search on line, you might find some of these tales recounted.

Real history is never as clean and simple as we might like it to be. Life can be messy. Simple stories are almost certainly just stories.

Was Eido roshi part of the Harada/ Yasutani line Josh?

No, i don't think so. Remember Harada / Yasutani started their own hybrid tradition, were independent and somewhat thought of as renegades by the Japanese Zen establishment.

Chisan wrote:

We may all see kennett Roshi from different angles my view is her behaviour and attitudes and experiences point for me that she did not have a great depth of understanding and hid it behind an cloak of authority that no one was allowed to look behind.The trouble with that is when one peeps one may see more than expected. It does not really matter if one does not have a great depth of understanding to me either,it is the pretending one has that is the problem.

:-) A snag is that, because any kensho makes such an enormous difference in ones life, one might assume that there's no more to be done, especially if one has become reasonably comfortable as a result of ongoing practice and previous liberative-insight, even though there are things one needs to notice, recognise, sort/deal with, see, overcome dualistic suffering from, and so on.

From the angle of self-awakening, a benefit of lay-life can be that no one takes any special notice of what you say -- that you have studied Zen carries no clout whatever -- which can be pleasantly reassuring in "let all things teach and enlighten us" mode. I hope that teachers find good ways to do what I remember Jiyu emphasising in the 1973 summer sesshin at Throssel and probably elsewhere and at other times -- always be willing to be a beginner. (-:

yes thanks I think you are right (for once) Josh

The only connection I can find is that there was contac between Yasutani and Eido and I think yasutani asked Eido to visit Robert Aitken Roshi in its early stages, and I believe Eido and Aitken had a falling out.

Interesting also is Phillip Kapleau was critisized for not completing all the koans of Yasutani. the last koans ( which apparently he did not complte) being the precept koans. I find this interesting as I assume that eido Roshi and Maezumi roshi did complete the precept koans. I think that there are many people around the world in every country, of every religion of every color,of every sexual persuasion,who would not act in the way that both Maezumi and Eido Roshi acted in regards to their sexual behaviour,simply because did not want toand because they felt that it was not the right thing to do. Which shows that human attributes like compassion and love are found in our hearts not religious organizations....The koan of every life

Anne I don't think any insight is accompanied by an assumption that there is no more to be done

:-) It can happen, CMH. Or that there's only a smidgen more and all will be complete as far as peace and ease goes. One may have an impression that one has undone all dualistic knots despite periodic twinges of dualistic unease. This doesn't annul the effect of the liberative insights, or mean that the person does not regard every moment as new, or practice as ongoing. (-:

Would you say that Nivana is sitting by an open fire with your slippers on

:-) No.

It's shopping-day today, CMH. All requests for crusty rolls will regretfully be declined. ;-)

As long as it is not chick pea pie from the craft market