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 No suggestions then?

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sianabelle

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Posts : 44
Join date : 2010-09-13
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: No suggestions then?   Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:21 pm

I just noticed there's been no new suggestions posted here for over a year. I suppose I could read some of the previous posts myself, though I already feel like I keep turning into a pillar of salt.
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danstaples

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Join date : 2012-04-12
Age : 70
Location : Glenwood Springs CO

PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:01 am

After consideration, it is still hard to feel comfortable "suggesting" to Shasta. So much of what I take for granted in my outlook on life - I am belatedly coming to realize - comes from the very few months I spent in lay training there. Sometimes, especially lately, I get what I believe is a glimpse of the view the monks there had of my journey. It's akin to the view we all got when the new traffic cams went up in helicopters perhaps. My overall impression of the OBC Connect site is that Peggy K. did not get the credit due for the personal spiritual, mental and physical platforms from which some of us speak. I do not doubt there were very negative experiences and my own thoughts on such is that perhaps the average meandering American youth wasn't perfect fodder for Japanese monasticism, especially a cut down version with limited resources in senior clerics, physical plant and so on. A suggestion for OBC? After all recent reports, the vision of Mike/EKo leaving seems clearer and less dark with really no yellow overtones. The Pope left. A British king left. The former was not criticized while the latter was a scandal. Since I went to Catholic schools for more than 15 years, I have to draw on that experience re: stepping down. A personal friend of my father's was president of a Jesuit university but stepped down and got married, leaving his order. I and my father pretty much thought it was a good thing: he was a good guy and what made him happy was for the best. So, while realizing there are better vantage points than mine, maybe OBC might just take a little tiny peek at any communication about Mr. Little, sort of check and see if a little credit's due Little.


Last edited by danstaples on Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo and edification)
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glorfindel

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PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:46 pm

Wow. Nice words Dan. The opposite of what I was expecting. 

Brace yourself!
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Diana



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Join date : 2010-06-11
Location : New Mexico

PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:13 pm

The way I see it, Dan is this: Eko had his own shadows to deal with like we all do. Recently, I heard a Dharma talk by Michael Stone and in the same week I heard a great yoga teacher say the same thing: I'll paraphrase: "look deeply into your life... is there anything that you are not bringing to your practice?"  Now, I don't know about you, but I know there are things that I, at some level, kept hidden, or decided not to carry into my practice. Unfortunately, this practice of not looking and not including, for me anyway, was reinforced by the culture of the Abbey and I suspect this started with Kennet and of course, was embraced by Eko. Ultimately, this not looking and not including, or turning away from, is what caused me to leave and what I believe, caused Eko to leave as well.

I got a sense training with him that he had things that he couldn't work out by being an Abbot and a Zen priest. I feel bad for him that he couldn't find what he needed from the practice to keep him there. And I totally relate because I couldn't find what I needed there either! Guess what? In religious or spiritual paths, if you don't find what you need, you move on! It's a path! You can't get attached to any form, you always keep moving and growing and learning.

I wish Eko and everyone else peace and love on the path! And remember, you can't hide- you have to include all of yourself and your life in your practice!
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:46 pm

Nice sentiments, I wonder with Kennett and Eko if they struggled because they felt they ought to be someone else,and not them with their shadows, which they may have indeed hidden from,I dont really know, and I cant really comment as I dont know what it is like at Shasta only know what the formitive years were like,but I will tell an intriguing story for me at least about karma shadows personality and self,
Two of my boys have bought themselves a puppy each, it is lovely to see them running about ,being told off by my dog, they are very different ,different personalities and one is very feminine and the other very masculine.Last night a couple of friends came round to sit zazen,we have done this together for 40 years,they had both had a break for a few weeks to have a holiday , So one brought round his young dog a Bichon Frise and certainly knows it! It was the first time he had met the puppies and straight away they were charging all over the place non stop,It was not going to stop so we agreed we would just sit amonst their turmoil, But a funny thing happened the moment we sat on our zafus  the noise stopped, they must have all sat down quietly. In zazen we can sit and be, before self is born and before personality is formed,and the bell goes to close the zazen and the pups are at it again charging around waiting at the door of our zendo. So I agree nothing is outside of our lives and everything is part of our practice,we cant live without personality and self,that would indeed 'not yet be zen'
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Diana



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Join date : 2010-06-11
Location : New Mexico

PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:51 pm

Yes, Chisan. What a great story! I notice that this happens all the time. At first the mind struggles with commotion and then makes a story about it. Next thing we know, we are threatened in some way and our hackles are up. But, if we wait, and wait, and wait, past our comfort zone, usually things quiet down. Sometimes we get in such a hizzy and react and create so much worry, anxiety, and suffering for ourselves.... when instead, we could just wait, and breathe.. and sometimes miracles or the completely unexpected happens! Or sometimes there is the so-called "teaching" staring at us there in the face.

Do the practice and miracles happen.. everyday!
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:03 am

Great reply Diana, and of course this is the great koan of practice and emlightenment.
Some experience of zazen draws us to inner calm , natuaral dropping of thoughts and seeing that all things come and go ,and clinging  to our own stuff regardless of what it is  puts us back on the carousel which is so hard to see what sometimes is so easy to see that everything can drop away.. However as you say normal living can be exasperating throw in a few complications like relationships kids and not enough money  and balance goes out the window 'sit like rocks' and 'nowhere is there any warmth' is not the right answer.
A 15 year old girl  told me this week that she had learned that she can keep going , long after she thought she could, It is rather a sad thing for a young girl to realise but she had been sexually abused when she was 14
I think we can learn many things in a temple and sitting with very wise people,  but it is harder  to learn to be human and coexist with everybody and the tension and realisation of the genjo koan of every day life I think, can help us see, that the miracle is, despite great hardships we and others face, that compassion and wisdom can permeate all our lives
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Isan
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PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:54 pm

Diana wrote:
The way I see it, Dan is this: Eko had his own shadows to deal with like we all do.  I got a sense training with him that he had things that he couldn't work out by being an Abbot and a Zen priest.

I wish Eko and everyone else peace and love on the path! And remember, you can't hide - you have to include all of yourself and your life in your practice!

Thanks this resonates!  I believe Eko demonstrated what many of us had already gone through.  You can only deny parts of yourself for so long and then you're going to fail.  The most troubling aspect of monastic training at Shasta Abbey was the message that once you made the commitment you could not change your mind.  It was very difficult to overcome that taboo.  As unfortunate as it was in some respects Eko did what he had to do to get out.  I wish him well too.


Last edited by Isan on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:42 am; edited 5 times in total
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:29 pm

The commitment should not be to a place or person but to being or living what is true,I dont believe you can leave that,you can decide not to be that but you can never leave that, I understand exactly what yo are saying Isan and agree that form of commitment is a something else  a form of control
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david.



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Join date : 2012-07-29

PostSubject: Re: No suggestions then?   Sun May 31, 2015 11:14 am

Feels like kind words here from everyone.

When I first sat and my mind began to let go of control, all the younger me's that i had felt forced to bury came up to express how they felt... for 4 years. ( I had a lot of catching up to do...) 

I discovered that where we hold is a place that we buried deep down inside when we were very small. And that there is nothing wrong with expressing how we feel.

Now if i can i prefer to name without blame. For me it allows the 'other' person room to move. To be here as they really are inside, rather than feeling they have to defend or pretend.
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