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 Nearly the birthday girl

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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Nearly the birthday girl   Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:00 am

This year has gone fast I remember some jokes this time last year
I wonder if your son is enjoying the world cup Lise, USA have done so well,and who does he want to win now,personally I want Argentina,Brazil,Holland or Belgium...but not Germany
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mokuan



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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:33 am

Nearly the birthday girl...
Now the birthday girl!

Big wishes for a very happy birthday to you Lise!

Hugs,
mokuan
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mstrathern
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:26 pm

Big best wishes Lise

But it looks as if the curse of Chisan has struck again, for Brazil and Holland ...Argentina next?
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Kozan
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:48 pm

Happy Birthday, Lise!

I hope that you are very busy right now, having a delightful celebration!!
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:19 am

Curse of Chisan well and truely struck   #feeling gutted
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Stan Giko

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:23 am

Happy birthday to you,   Happy Birthday to you,

Happy Birthday dear Lise,   Happy Birthday to you...ta raa....

Have a great day Lise !
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Kozan
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:56 pm

HA! My sentiments as well, Stan!

I have increasingly come to feel that compassion all around is a good thing, and that due to our collective conditioning, it might well be increasingly difficult to achieve!
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Stan Giko

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:51 am

I think it`s impossible to achieve Kozan !  it`s not a thing that we `control`...more like a result.
Can you hate or love to order...on the spot ?
Compassion is always somewhere.  If it`s not here `apparently`, it`s `there`. someone will always
think that compassion is increasing somewhere.

"Collective Conditioning" can certainly be said to exist because we can experience it but it does not
make it `Real`...something that never changes. It is just Ignorance controlling the human field.
Whilst there is Ignorance, there will always be the subsequent misapprehensions and actions arising
from Ignorance... ad infinitum, within the human field.

As we are not the creator and controller of the human field, what has any of this got to do with
who we really are ?
The world is perfect as it is this very moment or it would be different...but it isn`t.
I think compassion is known when we surrender all control and just follow our own true dharma.
Who is it that wants to achieve compassion anyway ?
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Kozan
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:02 am

Interesting thoughts Stan. And apologies Lise for diverting the focus of your birthday celebration thread!

Stan, while I certainly agree with all of your points, I would also say, in response to your comment:

"Can you hate or love to order...on the spot ?"

Yes, I believe we can.

Or more precisely, I think that compassion, love, and wisdom are intrinsic within awareness itself. They are ever present. They are what we "are".

The more interesting question, for me, is to understand the causal dynamic by which we, as awareness itself, come to "forget" awareness itself.
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Stan Giko

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:54 am

Hi Kozan,  this reply is in the spirit of swapping ideas on what seems to be our common interest...

Boy, did you hit the nail on the head with this one ! ......

" The more interesting question, for me, is to understand the causal dynamic by which we, as awareness itself, come to "forget" awareness itself. "

Yes, how is it possible that Awareness, which is limitless, can somehow limit itself by "forgetting"
that it is unlimited ?  It would seem to be impossible wouldn`t it, but it somehow does.

Awareness wouldn`t be unlimited if it didn`t have the power within itself to be limited though, and
so this power must exist.  It`s quite a conundrum but it only holds when Ignorance is operating
and is made possible by another `power`in Awareness,... that is Delusion, `Maya`.

When investigated, this power of Delusion can be seen to have three aspects within itself.  They are
the powers to Conceal/Veil,  to Project, and to clarify. they operate at all times moving from one to the other like filters over Awareness and colour our experience when we identify with any of them.

When Awareness `operates` the power of Clarity....which is pure intelligence (sattva) ALONE, it is known as the Creator of all things...the world.  At this point, the world is pure and the Creator is pure.  No evil exists here.  It is the "God" aspect which Buddhism speaks very little of. It`s a bad word for the creator due to the bad rap of religion `gone wrong` historically.  perhaps `God` might be better thought of as the sum total of all the karmas in existence.  certainly not personified as some big parent granting favours and dispensing punishment.

When the Veiling or Projecting aspects of Delusion/Ignorance are operating,and if we identify with them, the Creation is seen to be Impure and `Evil` can exist. For this reason Evil cannot be laid at the feet of the Creator.  It is Projection and Denial that is the cause of Evil and not the Creator.  It`s not much help to the bunch that enjoy saying " I don`t believe in God and I hate him ! ".  They are totally caught up in Projection by personifying the Creative power.

If we can observe these three powers of Clarity , Projection and Denial operating within us throughout the day, we can see that they make our behaviour completelly predictable. embarassingly so.  It makes the behaviour and statements of others quite transparent when it is seen which aspect of Delusion is operating within them at any given time. It is an extremelly useful practice as it leads to distancing  ourselves from these `filters` over Awareness which as you say, is our true identity.

Awareness is the world but only in its capacity as the Creator. It is a role that the Awareness assumes.  

`Creator` and Delusion/Maya and are one and the same like the web that is in the spider. Maya is just  an impersonal word for the Creator. Maya/Delusion is just the `Self` with reference to the totality of the apparent universe. In fact there is no world here unless we understand the world to be pure Awareness. What we  call the world is just Awareness seen through the prism of ignorance. The words total and individual are ignorance.
However if understood, we see that what we call the Creator and the individual are just IN Awareness.
From here it is known that the whole of Creation including the Individual are just Objects in Awareness but never the Subject.  The Subject/Awareness does not rely on any Object to make it complete.  Hence Freedom from the dependence on all or any or no object, is true Liberation.

It is not necessary to Eliminate Ignorance....it remains.  It`s just necessary to know what Ignorance is  and not identifying with it when it is apparent. Ignorance is said to be Beginingless because it`s true origin is known in Awareness, which is Beginingless.  It is not an object as such...it is simply Not Understanding.
It is knowledge that destroys ignorance in the mind and let`s face it, Enlightenment is only for the mind.
What else can you do with it ?  It`s just for the benefit of the `Apparent` individual so he/she can live at  peace whilst in the apparent world.  Awareness sees no World and needs no Enlightenment.  It is the `Light` !  Anyone who says he is enlightened is deluded.  That is projecting Awareness on to the individual and that individual is only an object in Awareness./our true self.

As Reality is Non-Dual...a partless whole, how can compassion be increased....and for whom ?  The world cannot be perfected because it is already perfect from the very `beginning`.  Furthermore, we as  Individuals cannot ever understand Maya/Delusion as here we are an Effect of Delusion.  The cause is always subtler than the effect.  The mind is vastly more coarse than Awareness.  There is all the difference in the world between the two.
Having spent years in the spiritual salt mines working on Mindfulness, the Precepts, Meditation, our minds tend to be purified mainly to the state of stability and Clarity.  From this state it is only knowledge that can close the deal....not more experiences, no matter how wonderful.  an endless amount of experiences will never add up to completeness as all experiences are limited by definition.
It is my and many other  people`s experience that this stage leads to an unquenchable thirst for Self knowledge.  It just does not  let up !  it feels like an obsession as the mind turns in on itself and abides there....with little or no movement.
The mind will just not be at rest until it fully understands, and only then will the heart be at rest.

From what I have discerned, the general Buddhist teachings are no longer complete when compared to the Buddha`s words in the early teachings and, this puts a huge stress on people trying to be `Emptiness` or not self without really understanding what was originally pointed at.  Awareness is beyond the senses which is why it cannot be an object...it is the ultimate subject.  The senses can only locate objects so when they cannot locate Awareness/the true self, it is concluded that there is no self at all. totally disregarding the fact that to say there is no self, there has to be some sort of `self` to witness that !  If you ask these people who hold fast to this view "How do you know what you know?"....they can never answer, ignore the  question, and change the subject.

It`s not to say that the original teachings can`t be found...they can. I`m sure that in the future most of the relevant surviving Non-Duality teachings will be re-found, collated and the Buddhas teachings will be once again more accesible and close to his original words, and more importantly, his meaning.
From what I can see, there is a fast growing Non-Duality interest , lots of Neo Duality teachers already complete with the usual type of charlatans.  It`s not a new problem. there is nothing new under the sun and it had been all worked out in the past, long ago and will be again in the future.
It still absolutely amazes me that the Buddha`s teaching of the `Unborn, Uncreated`....gets glossed over as if it has no message or meaning.  I think actually, that says a lot more about the level of teachers.

What can we make of this ?...

There is a famous passage in the Nehan
Gyo (Nirvana Sutra) which reads: All beings have the Buddha
Nature. However, Dogen interprets this as All beings are the
Buddha Nature! emphasizing that the Buddha Nature is the
basis of all existence and the source of all that is of value.

or...from the Diamond Sutra...

'Subhuti, what do you think? You should not say the Tathagata has this thought (in His mind): "I should liberate living beings." Subhuti, you should not think so. Why? Because there are really no living beings whom the Tathagata can liberate. If there were, the Tathagata would hold (the concept of) an ego, a personality, a being and a life. Subhuti, (when) the Tathagata speaks of an ego, there is in reality no ego, although common men think so. Subhuti, the Tathagata says common men are not, but are (expediently) called, common men.`

Ooops....where does the Bodhisattva idea come from then ?  We want to improve or save the world ? I don`t think it`s going to happen.  we`ll save the world when we save ourselves methinks.

The Buddha also spoke of the Anidassana Vinnana, the `Seamless, structureless` Awareness which is NOT one of the five skandhas, including the fifth Skandha of Vinnana or `personal` consciousness.

It is well and good to teach what we are not but you can`t finish on being a negative which is what most Buddhist teaching is.  To get at the truth, one needs to compare the Real with the Apparent and always discriminate the two, so as not to get caught up in the world of objects.
When only the `what is not true` is emphasised and the `true` is not made known from the start, then it is easy to fall into the `Emptyness` trap and get stuck in looking for more `enlightenment experiences in the vain hope that one day, the`Big One` will happen...the permanent one !  What was that definition of insanity again ?...

Having said all that, i`m sure that one can come to Realization if one is truly qualified enough with all the necessary attributes needed for a highly purified mind.  It`s hoping to win the biggest of lotteries though.
It is possible to do all the work and Enlightenment happens by `default`.  This assumes that one is still  interested in Liberation after having attained a peacfull and joyfull mind and lifestyle. Not the kiss of death I suppose.  Still, anyone can say they`re enlightened but there is a checklist of sorts.
The knowledge can be said to be fully assimilated if all sense of being a `Doer` is gone and the binding `Vasanas` no longer bind or force you to re-enact the vasanas.  ie. your conditioning no longer controls your actions.

Sooo...ultimately, when one is no longer a `Doer` but awareness, how can you do Hate to order on the spot ?  If I came up to you and you were perfectly happy and I said now hate !  could you do it ?
I guess this applies if you think you`re a `Doer` as well.    I don`t mean just do the thought of hate either  Ha ha....no tricks....

Errr...Happy Birthday again Lise....:-)



 



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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:19 pm

I hope you all will please forgive me - I am beyond mortified that I didn't see your very kind wishes sooner.  On my birthday I was on a boat and after that I've been scurrying and scampering, not checking in here much, and certainly not paying attention when I did. 

To Michael, Mokuan, Mark, Steve, and Stan, and everybody, thank you for remembering me on the b-day, which I did enjoy very much. I'm lucky to be in this life and am grateful for so much.

Michael, the World Cup just took over our household for however many days that was on, and Logan was all over the front room, jumping and carrying on. He hoped the US would go farther than they did of course, then after that it was Argentina because two of his good friends are from there. That game with Germany was just awful, poor Argentina. 

I'm just now going back to read the good stuff in this thread that I have skimmed over, in my haste to post this.  Once again, thank you - I appreciate all of you and your kind wishes.

Best to all,
L
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:45 am

I did not have much to cheer about about, however kindly tell Logan that balance was restored,when we showed LA Galaxy how to play #feeling better
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:13 am

They needed that lesson  funny  Overpaid bunch, I've always thought. But it is LA after all . . . I do miss Beckham being part of that.  He was the only aspect that held my interest.
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sianabelle

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:44 am

Just to add...personally I don't like football or golf.  A week or so ago I was round the back of a church and saw an old football amongst discarded cans of cider and lager and pigeon droppings, broken shards of pottery. I nudged it with my foot and it wiggled like it was alive and these silverfish were crawling all over and I took fright as I thought the ball was going to explode in my face with somethings. Anyways I hightailed it out of there as fast as I could, although I was only wearing sandals at the time so had to be a bit careful.

The rest of the day was quite enjoyable mind you
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:40 pm

Interesting story the stuff of nightmares, but then so was the way Manchester United played last season!
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sianabelle

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:16 pm

Was that against Man City (apologies for missing the majority of the Premier Cup)
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:19 pm

btw; at the end of March I was thinking about approaching the local council about running the local crazy golf concession beside the golf course. However I knew I'd never be able to make it work on my own, and besides, the closing date for applications had passed.
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:24 pm

Was that against Man City
Now that's naughty!
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Kozan
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:02 pm

Lise, Happy Birthday, on July 9th, a year later (in 2015), on your (our) next transit around the sun!

I hope that your day was a joyous celebration!!
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:34 am

Yes Lise, me too. Have a great year and may the pinot noir be with you.
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Stan Giko

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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:41 pm

Belated Birthday wishes from me too lise !   Hope you had a great day that included a few cream
buns. look forward to hearing from you.
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Nearly the birthday girl   Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:31 pm

Aw, how did I miss this. I am sorry. Thank you, my friends, for your kind messages on my birthday - I pop in here now and again, too quickly, and I missed this. I will slow down from now on. Update, I am pretty much okay with making further inroads into my 40s, all is well, no midlife crisis yet but perhaps I've got that to look forward to. Me and mine are well. Horses are feisty, son is gone back to uni after an awesome summer (in our opinion) at home with his dad and me. Not too much of that left, I'm sure, so we are appreciating it.

Stan, I did eat all kinds of things on my birthday, buns definitely, and other items very high in calories. Still paying for it. Mark, I love pinot noir, and I live not far from places that grow and sell this, which is convenient Smile  Steve, thank you, I had a riotous good time on the last revolution around the sun, and plan to meet and exceed that achievement this time.

My very best to you, friends. Hugs to all.

Yours,
Lise
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