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 Is Daishin Morgan retiring?

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Lise
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PostSubject: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 pm

First topic message reminder :


I found this item interesting, under the Sept. news bulletin on Throssel's website. I wonder if he plans to return to an active role as Abbot.  His message doesn't really say -

"Reverend Master Daishin on extended retreat
Rev. Master Daishin our Abbot, with the blessing of the Community, left the Abbey on the 15th of September for an extended private retreat. This is a message from him, written shortly before he set off: Dear Friends, [i]For the last year or so I have been suffering from a form of chronic fatigue syndrome and for much of the time I have been away from the Abbey while trying to find the best way to live with this condition. I will shortly be leaving Throssel once again, only this time for a longer retreat. While I am away the monastery will continue to be run by Rev. Leandra as vice abbot, the monastery council and the community.[i] [i]When I have been away recently I have kept up with emails and letters and remained to some extent plugged in. It now seems to be time for me to let go of my responsibilities more fully and to be away for a longer open ended retreat. This means that I will not be available for some time but fully expect that once this retreat comes to an end I will be back in touch once again.[i] [i]Thank you to all who continue to offer your support and make it possible for me to have this opportunity.[i] [i]With love and best wishes to you all,[i] [i]In gassho,[i] [i]Daishin[i] As always, people are very welcome to contact us and talk to a senior monk."[/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i]


I have wondered if there is an accepted way for a senior monk to retire from his or her role, as people normally do in the world, once they're not able or willing to meet the job requirements any longer.


It's unfortunate if his health condition was the reason he didn't attend this year's Conclave at Shasta Abbey. Given his role in ensuring the Faith Trust Institute's review (Shasta monks opposed it), I would have liked to have heard or read something from him in the way of an update, as to the degree of progress SA monks have made in implementing FTI's recommendations now that two years have passed. Or, at a more fundamental level, have they yet to acknowledge that things did go very wrong?

We've seen posts on this forum re: the incidence of debilitating illness among OBC monks. If it's higher than you'd expect to see in an average population, does anyone ask why?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:24 pm

Thanks, Jack. I thought I had found "fixity" when I started with OBC Buddhism. I guess not. But learning that we live in the uncertainty, the not-knowing is, as Eliot says, figuring out that there is only the still point and "only the dance."

I was struck to that Eliot, that conservative renegade, was a Buddhist inside.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:06 pm

I just find it suspicious how "Cronic Fatigue" re-occurs over and over again as an ailment amongst the monks.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:36 pm

Kozan wrote:
... During my recent visit to the Abbey, at one point in our conversation, RM Haryo (implicitly referring to the question you asked, within the equally implicit context of OBC Connect) stated that the OBC officially acknowledges that RM Jiyu made mistakes.

I would say that RM Seikai stepped back from participation on this Forum not because he disliked criticism of RMJK, but out of frustration that there was not a larger framework in place for addressing the underlying causal dynamics of what I have come to regard as the collective unconscious culture of the OBC--and (as Josh accurately points out) its shadow-dynamic........
I want to say a few things on "the idea of collective unconscious culture of the OBC and its shadow" ...
and I want to start by looking briefly at the Western flavors of consciousness (I am very conscious of the Lakavatara Sutra, but I don't want to surf the big waves right now).
 
Unconscious
Is there, can there be, an unconscious culture (I can ignore the tern collective since culture is collective … and I think it was George Orwell who said insanity is a culture of one). I do not think the question can be answered. And any attempt to answer this question would generate a paralogism (Immanuel Kant). Any proposition made in the attempt to answer this question can never resolve itself into a claim of truth or of falsity due to the limitations of access. Thoughts, motivations, etc. can all be in the unconscious but not culture, in the sense of the meaning of culture as being that of a horizon of participation.
 
Subconscious
Is there, can there be, a subconscious culture. I would say that that is not possible, again understanding culture as being that of a horizon of participation.
 
Culture is built upon the subconscious; indeed I think that it can be argued that the subconscious is the true totem (abstract entity) of Western civilization as a the Platonic accomplishment of setting abstraction as a basic feature of the horizon of our existence.
 
Preconscious
Is there, can there be, a preconscious culture. I would say that culture is too often experienced as precociousness by some of its members; and that the true life and vitality of culture is in its members rising into conscious participation in their culture. This is the heart of the love of wisdom: philosophy.
 
But I recall, when I was at Shasta Abbey, the casual dismissal of philosophy and the intellectual as inappropriate use of mind; or as I would prefer to say, an unauthorized use of the mind.
 
So when there is a view that one disparages intellectual life as a crude bias -- this being a position propagated by Zen – you have a point of view that can only be vulnerable to the sad excesses of fundamentalism.
 
When the Chinese Buddhist experienced their last genocide, did not the Buddhist sects that remained adopt the teaching of those sects that were exterminated and today you can find Chinese teachers being linage holders to more than one sect. What a noble and truly Buddhist way to deal with the dead. They bind their former "competitors" to their practice, to finally become non-competitive.
 
Now I want to turn briefly to your idea of the shadow -- the darkness accompanying the light, alive only on the periphery. It is brilliant and poetic image. But the shadow is also unmasked in the very strategies of practice.
 
1 - Is OBC a cult? I have already explained on this forum why (IMO) it is not. But does the OBC possess the seeds from which a cult can grow and thrive?
 
The answer (IMO) is yes. Here are some Zen /OBC ideas that are such seeds:
1.1 - The Master of a disciple is the living Buddha.
1.2 - The Master as enlightened and the disciple as ignorant. ("simultaneously with the universe" must in a galaxy far far away. The real point here is that in all religions devotees temporarily take on negative descriptors (sinner, ignorant) as a social ritual of transformation and acceptance into the group. But when people take on negative descriptors permanently you have mental health issues and your bus ride to paradise just went south)
1.3 - When I was at the Abbey there was the free floating belief that seniority was synonymous with greater insight: so (in general terms) seniors were de facto better than their juniors. I personally only ever met 3 monks who were consciously out of step with this particular piece of background noise.
1.4 - Buddhist teaching is so precious and so rare to come by, that its presence can only be addressed by utter and avid submission. (After all, who wants to wait another 100,000 kalpas for the next bus … this is how desperate a good student must be! But, metaphysically, the maximum duration of an effect is 84,000 kalpas ... my point, the use of 100,000 is an absurdity since the maximum duration of cause and effect is set at 84,000 kalpas, which is just suppose to mean an incomprehensibly long time; the number is qualitative not quantitative: other qualitative number are some, a lot, many .... when you use numeric values for qualitative references you can create a lot of logical confusion and Indian metaphysics has a beautiful array of such artifacts ... but I digress)
1.5 – The problem of ignorance is that the temporal is taken as a refuge (not that we may require more than one temporal refuge, with an understanding that behind/beneath the temporal is the light of eternity which we may desire as a refuge but in fact it cannot actually be that. (Hagel wrecked the concept of "the Eternal" for me so I just can't bring myself to use it … I positively dislike "the Eternal").
1.6 - Enlightenment as a flight from the burden to claim one's humanity (The very last thing I would ever want to do is meet another enlightened person. Give me someone who is struggling to just be human).
 
For me another key example of the strategy of the shadow (can somebody play the Star Wars theme song  please) is in the following little story:
 
The claim is made that conflict in communication is, in the Buddhist context, inappropriate and the desire is to speak and communicate positively and with care and blah blah blah.
 
In sociology it is well established that when you create rules, you also create the capacity for rule breaking.
 
But the gentle teaching, which appears by all appearances to just being gentle, is saying that you cannot disagree ... why … because disagreement is conflict.
 
So you see: if a teacher said, you are not to disagree, that teacher is being irresponsibly clear and precise. But when a teacher preaches about conflict as a problem in Buddhist training (an OBC theme from the beginning) you the listener and aspiring disciple will extrapolate the lesson of compliance and submission in the privacy of your own thoughts and you will then be the architect of your own cell (monks like to live in cells) and you will self-regulate, self-criticize ... indeed you will sublimate and/or disassociate ... and you will end up making conflict your mode of being-in-the-world, all wrapped in a shell of peacefulness ... attacking yourself at every turn and calling it training ... until your teacher authorizes that you have successfully completed your training. But new Zen habits die hard.
 
Why has the teaching of peace and unity in the OBC given birth to so much conflict, strife, pain and suffering? What is wrong with peace and unity?!
 
I will impatiently give the answer (time is too precious to waste):
 
Help is morally pure. Help is never a bad thing.
 
But Help, all too often, can be a pedagogy of violence: the purpose of this violence is to teach people a lesson.
 
The reason that I walk in the Shaolin tradition is that it takes the study of violence as a key practice: both the violence we can be surrounded by and the violence that arises from within. And what else is violence but suffering.
 
But how to overcome violence -- this is the koan of daily life. And judging by the news being repeated on this forum year after year, it seems to be the daily life of religions (old and new).
 
In the modern world the citizen can live in a peace that is supported by, dependent on, a serious military might.
 
Peace is neither absolute nor ultimate -- but we so desperately seek it or seek to preserve it. It seems to be a human need that all too often we are willing to kill for it or die for it (directly or by those acting on our behalf).
 
CAN WE LIVE FOR PEACE?
 
... I imagine a spiritual teacher as someone who brings and gives a lasting peace to those willing to accept and to those willing to reject.
 
 


Last edited by albertfuller on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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polly



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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:45 pm

That was a beautiful piece of reasoning. Thanks for making the effort and taking the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:42 pm

Albert: I remember a guy that got way-peeved at me for keeping one desk lamp on after lights-out, at Shasta
(I was visiting).  He was some kind of regular.  He had that canvas judo suit of the layman.  That was during a drought year. With the water shortage, they didn't want us flushing the toilet everytime it was used. 
 
I was drawing out the plans for making a weighted stopcock/flapper valve, with a dixie cup, washers, and hot wax poured in to hold the washers in place, with the dixie cup.  You unscrew the copper rod from the flapper valve (this was the old plumbing) punch it through the center of the waxed washers in the dixie cup, and the toilet only flushes when you hold the handle down.  So you can highly regulate the flow...and not keep biohazard around for the next guy to ponder...and splash aboot.

In any case, some guy in my little barracks just about pounced me for leaking over into the enforced darkness...but I 'splained I was leaving in the AM, and "had" to get this done. I don't know if they ever implemented it--the monk I gave the drawing and text to seemed rather nonplussed.  I think it was Rev. Shiko Rom.  Not her bailiwick, was it? Wasn't she a nurse?

But this is always the problem with theory versus practice, yes?  It may be that theory is just a different kind of practice, like Aquinas trying to reason out the nature of God, or someone trying to find the mathematical combinations for disciple-master interactions...that practice of mind is scratching one kind of itch.  Trying to take the tension out of toilet flushing/water-saving is another kind of practice.

Maybe if we put all the cards back in the deck after each hand, and reshuffled, we would be more efficient and effective.  I find I've lived, ulp, for decades--in discomfort--by not properly tidying up my house.  My w.o.t.t. (wife of the time) did it, and I never learned from her.  Left to myself, I keep everything.  Holding every physical thing is not that much different from holding every thought.  I need to trust that the universe will let me get stuff again, should I need it...and let stuff flow through me (so hard!) not wash up at my bend of the river...

and maybe the same with thoughts, theory, and the terms...I don't understand your distaste for "The Eternal" but I admit, I can't look at medical pictures...so I've got distastes too...still? I hope my doctors can! 

Just like that guy who chested me up and seemed ready to paste me over trying to help...it wasn't his thing, to modify a toilet, so it wasn't going to go down on his turf?  He had taken the strict rules of Shasta Abbey to be his turf.

I had taken the improvement of Shasta Abbey to be my turf, and had only one thing to offer -- which actually my genius brother taught me, so it wasn't even "mine."

Interesting as it is to ride over hedgerows at full gallop in your steeplechase of thought and theory, I'm wondering: Have you made this your turf?  To defend in all its dimensions?

if not--could you say it one more time, just the chorus, so we can sing along like the "lineman for the county" who hears his babe singing in the wires (she must be some 220 Volt babe) !
thanks, Albert!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:05 am

Shasta Abbey and Jiyu kennett meant something positive to most of the people who write here Pete including myself. With myself there was a line in the sand when it was helpful,then was not. I am sure that line is different for everyone, It is quite difficult after reaching the line working out what to do next. I don't think one knows what to do one tries this and that and work it out. The unfortunate aspect is disillusion setting in and the practice that was once important fades away. Actually I think it is a great opportunity to work out what the practice was and should be. Is carrying around a set of rules and regulations and new words, real practice,or is actually leaving a system behind, even more relevant to zen practice of seeing what is real where we are right now. One aspect of Buddhism is the giving unintentionally or intentionally comfort to it's followers,Shasta and people there may well have given you as it did me give comfort and direction, if there was a funky blues song with the line 'aint nothin wrong with that ' I would quote it but cant think of one so hum along anyway!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:31 am

ChisanM.:  Sure there's a blues that says it! (can't think of it nuther)...maybe Sonny Boy Williamson "ain't gonna do no mo' fattenin' frogs for snakes..."

Meanwhile, back at the Raunch:  This started out as a musing on Daishin.  Rev. Master Jiyu Kennett founded Shasta and wrote a bunch o' books.

Rev. Master Daishin held up the roof of a priory, and wrote one book, if we're not mistaken? (avail. on Amazon I think?)

Meanwhile -- I've done what?  dug some holes for Rev. Master Eko, and chopped some wood that's probably not even there anymore!

I was asking if the intellectual approach parses and dices, as in my own case finding fault with page 1 of Zen Is Eternal Life for its electrical analogy where she had a string of lights wired in series (like ye olde Xmas tree lights were, in the 50s) but actually light strings are wired in parallel...so there's no voltage drop, or short from the point of one dang dead bulb.

Have we made ourselves clear? Expressing our intellectation/delectation as in "I don't like a term like 'The Eternal'" is wiring in series.  We hit the dead bulb...and the rest of the thoughts and practices and teachings down the line are blacked out...especially when someone's shooting lightining out his head, the rest of us just stand by slackjawed and feel compelled to buy in.  There is a song about that: Bukka White: (via Tom Rush)
"This song's about a train. The train's called the Panama Limited.  That train's so fast the hoboes don't mess with that train--just stand by the tracks with their hats in their hand."

Is that what we dang hoboes s'posed to do...or "Buddy better get on down the line; here comes 97 making up some time; gotta ton of coal poured down the stack..." something something "here comes 97 running down the track.

which gets us  back to Daisin somehow--anyone seen his book?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:18 pm

I'm interested in this aspect of R. Daishin's leave -  he has the community's blessing to take what appears to be an indefinite leave, at least the public message gives that impression. I wonder at what point would they consider needing to fill the Abbot role with someone who is actively discharging the duties and living at Throssel?

I've been told that SA allows monks to take up to a year's leave before requiring a decision on the monk's part; does anyone know if this is correct?


Last edited by Lise on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:49 pm

I do not know Lise I think it will unfold itself quite interestingly. I hope that his illness is over quickly as debilitating illnesses especially long term is very unpleasant. I did not know if Daishin had written a book so i typed it in to google. Daishin has written two books but in fourth Position on google was the OBCC and first line
No new posts ... pete x. berkeley · Is Daishin Morgan retiring?
I wonder if England is ready for the urban street speak with hints of from the wrong side of the tracks,
would the real questions and answers be deciphered, or would the memories of a far away lick be all that was heard
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:28 pm

We popped up fourth on Google? cool.

Not sure I understood your last comment about urban street speak?  You mean from this forum, I'm guessing? since Daishin M's book will no doubt be very proper.
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:17 am

sorry i was not clear9neber am) i was referring to our Pete Mundy!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:25 am

Daishin Morgan's books are good. Simple and to the point. If he does retire It would be cool if the vice abbess takes over as she is really cool. I remember visiting Throssel and she seemed to be a novice for years and years and years! I used to secretly think "why isn't that nice lady the boss here?"
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:15 pm

Chisan? Bif. pow. socko.  I was not clear nuther...I almost stopped myself from reading Selling Water By The River (aka Z.I.E.L.) because I took issue with the electric bulb analogy, p. 1, which must really have been a defense against learning, which fortunately my sheer bulk of ignorance leaned over and carried me to page 2.  It's so irritating when someone knows more than moi.

In short? Especially when someone crackling with intelligence comes into the forum laying out their likes and dislikes, we Davey Crockett hat backwards-wearing backwoodsers perk up, pull-start the swamp buggy bailing all the way, and try to find civilization, and the line to get into or otherwise toe--because these definitive statements of like and dislike can sway a person, here's how:

If a smart person (A) tells a slow person (PM) what's what, should the slow person (PM) disagree or even merely demur and cough into a hanky, the smart person (A) by definition defines the slow person as not only wrong, but dumb, and therefore automatically wrong as drought, or Ourobouros spinning backwards, wrong all the way, all the time in perpetuity until death do us part.

In short, if A > B, and SA + JK > ZB accroding to A but SA + JK > or = ZB according to B, then B < DSQ (doodleysquat). 

That's the danger of crackling with intelligence, you can start a pontification landslide and bury slow folks alive. I know the slow-thoughters are dispensable to the person they don't agree with, but who's gonna feed the muskrat?  Walk the gator?  Milk the horse?   Bring the dog his paper? run and tell the king the sky is falling?

Wouldn't it be better for people to say: This is what happened to me; this is what I think about X, Y, or Z.  rather than: This was what's what, is what's what, and this IS IT period zero.

Wouldn't it be better to turn past p. 1 despite the gag factor?
 
Who cares if people believe in "The Eternal?" Isn't the hope that The Eternal believes in us? or lives in us, or something.  Cuz if we can't develop the power to "touch heaven and enter into enlightenment" we're stuck in Schenectady, (or in your case East Upsidedown-Crumpet On Marmelade near Fuzzyrug).

I, the Great and Powerful Oz have spoken.
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:55 pm

another way of looking at it from A perspective is SA+JK >SAJK which may have been the right answer but maybe the right question is where does one find >ZB
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am

pete x. berkeley wrote:
Chisan? Bif. pow. socko.  I was not clear nuther...I almost stopped myself from reading Selling Water By The River (aka Z.I.E.L.) because I took issue with the electric bulb analogy, p. 1, which must really have been a defense against learning, which fortunately my sheer bulk of ignorance leaned over and carried me to page 2.  It's so irritating when someone knows more than moi.

Who cares if people believe in "The Eternal?" Isn't the hope that The Eternal believes in us? or lives in us, or something.  Cuz if we can't develop the power to "touch heaven and enter into enlightenment" we're stuck in Schenectady, (or in your case East Upsidedown-Crumpet On Marmelade near Fuzzyrug).

I, the Great and Powerful Oz have spoken.
To Pete X

You began your approach (response to me) by coming in at my 2 o'clock on a personal tangent, with the sun at your back. The tactic of exploiting a vulnerability was IMO unsurprising. But then you suddenly dropped away and put down in a forest and reconfigured yourself with a woodman's charm through a staccato series of images that accumulated to a powerful and dynamic metaphor, underscoring the the contextual relevance of survival/necessary skills. Even the self-conscious absence of civilization was muted by the vitality of being at home in the rough, crude wilderness. I expected the proverbial stalk of grass dangling recklessly at the side of your mouth and the oh shucks as you kick the dirt as part of the reflex of a thought.

Getting the dog his paper is an amazing image that effortlessly captures the deep sense of existential absurdity (Jean-Paul Sartre) of the human predicament and its savored the dramaturgical value as I was so warmly reminded of Beckett's "Waiting for Godot."

Your literary display stunned me. I was as much surprised as I was impressed. The effortless (as in artful) yoking of the low (the ignorant woodsman) with the high (the spiritual) has all the verisimilitude of Mu.

But l want to say that you praise of me for intelligence is what, in Shaolin, would be called a "false opening": you give the appearance of showing a weakness fully expecting the other to seek to take advantage of it .... which allows you to control the other's decision as to the point of entry ... and it is a false opening because you possess the required skill to ensure that the opening cannot be exploited ... but I digress.

You tangential response as beautifully crafted as it was, in so far that it is an objection, has no support/validity in Buddhism: the Buddha is said to have said that we do not need to believe something because someone said so.

More precisely, I was not referring to the Eternal; I was referring to the concept 'the Eternal.' (this is basic Hagel, concept and referent ... or in Zen, the finger (concept) and moon (referent)) This term, "the Eternal," was part of the Westernization of Zen and slowly evolved into a primary term sometime in the mid 80's. You should understand many things were tried some worked and were kept and some did not work and were abandoned. Maybe the biggest disservice the older Abbey did was to remove the sense of tentativeness/exploration that you had to practice in order to find success, not the fixed and rigid just-practice-the-success. or better said "just practice our success".

It may be hard to imagine, but there was a time when monks at Shasta Abbey practiced Zen with no significant focus on past lives. Indeed, the concept is really only useful to those people have experienced past lives: IMO, if you have not experienced past lives then this topic/subject belongs to the group of topics/subjects that tend not to edification.

Further, as for my preferences (likes/dislikes), I am very upfront about them: they are my pets. Any even if we both have dogs, my dog is quite different than your dog: mine being use to walking in the Malls and manicured parks of the proverbial big city, while your dog is an avid reader of newspapers. Anyway, as to my preferences, the first lecture I attended, after I became a monk, was a leture by Roshi Jiyu-Kenneth on Nagaarajuna (Madhyamika philosophy) ... sorry for using the p word again. And after some 35 years ... Madhyamika philosophy is still the one that chooses me ... it is still a pleasure and an adventure.

When I am asked what I believe in, I say, "I believe in Nothing."

But what I was talking about was simple if you want to develop an articulate criticism then your key terms have to be well founded .... unconscious collective culture IMO is not going to fly it in the big world beyond this forum.

Please accept my apologies for distressing you by my aside on "the Eternal." I would like you to remove it and see that my main point in no way depends on it.

and say hi to your dog for me....
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:31 am

Mein Gott, ich bin unter Riesen!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:55 am

Moi aussi, mon ami !
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:23 pm

What they said.
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pete x. berkeley

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Victor, Isan, Stan and Lise: i CAN'T THINK FOR LAUGHING!  Thanks for the toasty ripotes, the trenchant and pithy!!

To the Victor Goes The Spoils!  I'm looking around for a blue ribbon and a gold star on the emoticons, but it's just the intermarriage offspring of Smiley and the Barbarians.

All Dogs Go To Heaven. Arf!  (what a minute here..."Does a dog have a Buddha nature?" and if you answer "Mu!" that'd introduce a cow into the equation.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:44 pm

Isan? You are under a giant? Translate for me would you?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:04 pm

polly wrote:
Isan? You are under a giant? Translate for me would you?
.
I typed "My God, I am among giants!" into Google Translate and it came back with "Mein Gott, ich bin unter Riesen!"

LOL
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breljo

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:14 pm

Hi Polly

I actually thought you were asking for something other then a literal translation from Isan re the Giant thing and thought I had the same question, but guess we were not on the "same page".  I tell you what though, the field for the Giants (Riesen) is wide open at the moment, since the Zwerge(Dwarfs) are all up at the North Pole, hard at work, minding their own business and tending to what they're supposed to be doing this time of the year. Smile


Last edited by breljo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add emoticon)
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polly

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:35 pm

funny  Just wondered what Isan was driving at since I knew it wasn't the literal translation. Proof that Google doesn't know everything. And you never know if someone here is throwing down a comment that means something to them that it doesn't mean to the average bear. Lots of very good minds and wide-ranging reference points (as well as eccentrics) here. Isan is right, we are among giants, now and then anyway. And yes, breljo, the dwarfs are busy right now, myself among them, though not in Santa's workshop, darn it.  I sometimes get the weird feeling that the  great myths like Brahma, Shiva and Santa Claus have at least as much reality as the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Oh, more than they, please!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:58 am

Albert wrote:
".... unconscious collective culture IMO is not going to fly it in the big world beyond this forum."


Hi Albert, thank you for your comment, on my yet earlier comment, referencing the article that I've written proposing the hypothesis that the OBC, as an institution and a community of practitioners, has a collective culture which informs many assumptions, beliefs, and practices--and yet remains semi-conscious if not unconscious, most of the time.

This is not unusual. Most if not all of us grow up under conditioning which, I would propose, occurs at a collective level (family, school, wider society), and functions to inform our understanding of the very nature of existence, the nature of being, the way it all works, and the requirements for achieving survival and success. And yet, I would propose (based on my own experience) that most of us have little recognition of this, most of the time.

Neither Buddhism nor western philosophy, or even modern psychology and sociology, have provided much to support our understanding of how the collective realm actually works.

Nevertheless, I think that Buddhism, philosophy, psychology, and sociology (and a number of other disciplines as well) can all benefit from, and contribute to, what I believe to be a growing awareness of the collective realm and its causal dynamics.

I think that many if not most of the posts on this Forum reflect an effort to come to terms with our collective unconscious culture--both within the OBC, and beyond--and to bring it into conscious awareness.

This effort is impossible (IMO)--unless, and until--we can acknowledge the existence of our collective unconscious culture to begin with.

(By the way, Albert, good to see you back on the Forum!)


Last edited by Kozan on Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : My best effort to understand is an ongoing work in progress!)
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:36 am

But in any event, the mayor of Albert's city is making a major fool of himself. In any language (IMO, as everyone likes to say).
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:46 am

Yep,  and he just got a higher approval rating than Obama and our own British
Prime minister..........go figure !  as you guys say.

Hang on, then again......
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:41 am

Toronto needs Albert to go into public service; he would set things to rights in short order, seriously. Someone with that degree of command over the language, and abstract/complex thought processes, could have the lot of them whipped into shape before they knew what hit them.

I can sort of see what appeals to people about Ford. He is just SO earnestly clueless and impossibly inappropriate, you almost want to protect him, from himself and from the disasters he's hurtling toward. 

To me he's like a person who's slipped out the side door of an institution while the caregivers weren't watching, and now he's roaming the streets, just "being Rob Ford". It feels like someone has a duty to recapture him and ensure he gets treatment and kind care.
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albertfuller

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:23 am

To Lise: I have been (and still am) working for the city for about 20 years.I am in the IT section of social services as an information technology analyst with my current focus being business analysis and software testing. As a public service employee at the city of toronto I cannot make any comment about the corporation.
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:54 pm

Upon your retirement, please feel free to share any observations, if you like funny  

Maybe we'll start a thread for that - might be fun to see what comes forth -
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:40 pm

Regarding Kozans last posts I was thinking that the "collective realm and its causal dynamics"should be becoming easier and easier to recognize all the time, especially within the area of ecology, and yet, even though there are the many warning signs all around of the long range negative effects of the ever increasing unsustainable exploitation and misuse of resources, these warning signs are mostly still being largely ignored in favor for short term profits. This goes on until the consequenses eventually have a way of presenting themselves.  Anyone having come into contact with the teachings of cause and effect should no longer be able to ignore the eventual consequenses that arise from deliberate disrespect, indifference or cruelty, whether this is in the areas of ecology or human interaction, and it should be evident most of all amongst those that have dedicated their lives to the study of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:46 pm

Very well said, Brigette. I had never exactly thought of the ongoing/impending environmental disaster from the karma point of view, but you're quite right about the cause and effect.

I am hoping - for my grandchildren's sake - that the human race will muddle through this wilful, greedy destruction of our planet somehow. Perhaps China will turn green and drag the US along with it.

I am a believer in the muddle-through nature of human affairs. Sometimes, of course, the result of our misdirection is disaster. But often people somehow manage to get through even our gravest mistakes.

Perhaps that's why I was never as damaged by the OBC as some people have been. I never really bought into it wholeheartedly. I sort of fudged my way through the ceremonies and bizarre teachings. Muddle through . . .
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:45 am

Brigitte, I second Carol's comment; supremely well said! I think that your observation below absolutely nails it:

"Anyone having come into contact with the teachings of cause and effect should no longer be able to ignore the eventual consequenses that arise from deliberate disrespect, indifference or cruelty, whether this is in the areas of ecology or human interaction, and it should be evident most of all amongst those that have dedicated their lives to the study of this."

And Carol, I fully agree.

It seems to me that the essence of "muddling through' might be the process by which we simply bring our awareness to bear on the issue--both individually and collectively.

Perhaps, much as we are doing now, on this Forum!
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:50 pm

"Muddling through" also requires recognition that the box comes with the lid. Things aren't perfect, and we bring suffering upon ourselves when we try to make things perfect. We do our best, and we live with the results. But the box and the lid are one just as perfection and muddling along are one and the same.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:11 am

Hello all,

Just thought i would like to say thank you for the existence of this forum, to all who keep it going, the administrators and all who contribute here with their posts, it has helped a lot.   It has helped to hear of all the varied experiences, both the negative and the positive ones. Because of the fact that at least for me, old age and various "ailments" are already having an impact, and the "other" probably not too far off, I no longer have the energy it would take to try and analyze, talk it out, to determine what went wrong with my practice, get to the bottom of it all.  All I can do is rely on my intuition.  I strongly believe that all of us, at any given moment, believe we are doing the best we can and learn lessons that are the result of a movement of events far too complex for many of us to comprehend all at once.  I am also grateful to have become acquainted with some really exquisite Buddhist scriptures that have a way of clarifying these complexities in a way nothing else can, and that has come about mostly because of my OBC practice. So, I have after all, a lot to be thankful for.

Wishing all a happy Thanksgiving

Brigitte
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:46 am

Dance all the way with that fantastic music you showed me Brigitte
Take care and love from over the water
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breljo

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:25 am

Chisan Michael

Thanks for the encouragement, yet i still have to be a bit careful since I broke my foot this summer and am just now walking on it aagain, with the assistance of a cane.  And yes, since you reminded me of that music which I hadn't thought of for some time, I made the mistake of listening to some of it last night and then had a hard time falling asleep.  That's what I get, but you're right it is fantastic. A nice dreamy Balinese Gamelan would probably have worked better.  Take care and send some of that legendary UK rain over here to Southern Cal., it's needed badly. 

Brigitte
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:48 pm

Well done Brigitte  I wish I could send you all the rain,but there again I do like England,although in Cornwall we are not really part of England we like to feel we are independent!!
Take care of yourself
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:07 pm

Once upon a time (in the Lotus Sutra I reckon which I've yet to read in it's entirety) there was a physician who had a lot of kids who were up to all sorts. This physician guy got kind of fed up, so he hatched a plan to disappear and pretend he'd died. He'd left some medicine behind however, and some of the kids thought, "We feel really rough. We might even be dying. Out of desperation maybe we should try some of that medicine Dad left behind. It might even work, since he seemed to be good at making the stuff." Some of them were, like, "I'm not having any of that, curse him for leaving, %$%$. Bah! I'll be off". The ones who swallowed their pride and the medicine did alright in the end. The physician showed up again and was well pleased that some of his kids took the right medicine. But he was exceedingly upset not all of them had, and wrote an epic poem to recite at their funerals, and had to live with their loss for the rest of his life.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:26 pm

p.s. So far as I'm aware (TV documentary a while back in the UK) various Chinese Zen monasteries practise t'ai chi stuff since they realised sitting ALL the time was a bit counterproductive. And in the Rules for Meditation, it does state "cling to neither sitting nor lying down" which would be why working meditation, preferably outdoors, is practised in the OBC. Have you ever seen a dancer's or a gymnast's focus? How is that not a form of working meditation? The word "work" in the West has too many negative connotations. Perhaps it should be called meditation in motion or something.

Anyways, for those with musculoskeletal physical ailments, there's handy machines called power platforms. You stand on a platform which oscillates at each side, causing a dynamic instability in the major muscle groups in the body and by stimulating the reflexes to counteract the changes in position and not fall off, the muscle fibres get exercised and toned. It also improves lymphatic drainage and seems to also stimulate the nervous system. You feel like you're standing on a cake mixer (and it sounds like it too), but if you're a physical wreck it really helps. From personal experience.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:55 am

The first Zen monastery in China was the Shaolin Temple in Songshan. They have always practiced martial arts there, they don't do it because they realised that sitting all the time was counterproductive, originally zen monks practiced martial arts, qigong and meditation.  Sitting all the time came later.
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:55 pm

Yoga is meditation in movement also.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:08 pm

They had a book in the Shaolin Temple in which a man wrote about studying Shaolin qigong. All the exercises he described were exactly the same as yoga pranayama exercises, even including alternate nostril breathing. Which is not surprising given that Bodhidharma was supposed to have come from India.
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:58 pm

Sitting all the time isn't healthful!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:43 pm

Your right Carol. Like most things it depends so much on attitude. Sitting can easily be an escape from the world instead of an entrance into it. Just as mindfulness can be used as a form of armor to keep the world at bay rather than a gate to enter into it.

Why is 'Zen mind, beginners mind', because often the beginner comes with an open, naive, inquiring and eager mind. Something that old jaded hands who know it all can find difficult. 

I seem to remember in a slightly similar vein Thomas Merton, one of the great Cistercian monks of the last century, commenting in one of his occasional lectures on St John of the Cross's admonition in a letter to some nuns that they should 'live in the monastery as if on their own'. Merton said that in his own monastery there seemed to be some who understood this to mean that they should be impervious to the world around them and grew thick impenetrable shells. 'Boy' he said 'are they in for a shock when they die! They are going to meet someone who can really crack shells and that's going to be painful!'
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:29 am

So right
The journey seems to stop when one becomes knowledgeable of the path,especially when the crazy desire to point the way for others to walk creeps in
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:42 am

Yup, it's the other old zen saying 'Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know.'
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:02 am

I do think the forum here and other discussions regarding teacher behavior, has done so much in dispelling myths and fantasies,sometimes one is so close to the hub of an institution one loses sight of the beginners mind
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PostSubject: Re: Is Daishin Morgan retiring?   Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:43 am

I think the marshmallow man may say that Lyme disease can be dried out and return the fire
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