Irreverence

First topic message reminder :

I was moved to start this thread after a memory of someone jumped into my head. I think this was prompted by Olga's statement in another thread about she learned to use her middle finger, lol.

Please do share any memories of folks that you have who acted in brave ways, stood up to authority, or was just brave enough to be themselves and train anyway.

Enjoy!

Mokuan

Amazing! She was publicly humiliated in that fashion for going to bible study? My understanding is that she was just visiting her parent for a time; perhaps for the summer or something. It wasn't like she was a postulant or anything. It is rare that I'm on the side of Christian fundamentalism, but go figure it'd be the OBC that has me cheering. If there is a Golden Irreverence to be given on this thread, I say it goes to this gutsy teen. She stood up for herself and didn't back down. She was alone in monastery full of robed, officious looking monks frowning down upon her, chastised by one of the enlightened, and she stood her ground without even flinching, as far as I could see. I think there's something we all could have learned from her. The envelope please!

I remember this story being told second or third hand. But leave it to the young to own their own truth and find their own path. In our day the oppressor of the young might have been the Christian fundamentalist pastor or priest, but it goes to show that the shoe of the oppressor can just as easily be on the Eastern religionist as the Western, even more so, if that guru, abbot, or teacher makes claims of enlightenment or infallibility.

I enjoyed reading this thread.I am new to the forum,and not sure how to use it or contribute.
Yes it is easy in this buddhist game to get"up yourself".all the men in frocks, doileys on altars bells and smells...

Easy too to forget we are involved in a new cultural phenomenon -western.buddhism,we are all amateurs.

Anyway its good to be here .I'm sure I'll find my way into some absorbing conversations on the site.There is a lot going on here and it seems very worthwhile

Ikuko wrote:

Anyway its good to be here .I'm sure I'll find my way into some absorbing conversations on the site.There is a lot going on here and it seems very worthwhile

Welcome Ikuko! Note there is an "introductions" section if you would like to say something about yourself at some point. Meanwhile enjoy the forum. Most of the conversations are related to the OBC, but the content is relevant to spiritual practice and groups in general.

I was attending a retreat in 1984 and asked a monk if I could run around the property--they said it was o.k So I ran around the property next to the fence. There was no prohibition about going past the ceremony hall for guests at that time.I remembered seeing the cook at that time running. Also--several of the monks backpacked--Roshi Hogetsu, Rev Kinrei and Rev. Geoffrey. Rev. Kinrei made a great little meditation bench that had foldable legs you could put into a backpack. I bought one and used it until a few years ago.

Now I wouldn't even think of it--one of the drawbacks to spending a big amount of time there on retreat--no way to keep physical fitness up. I was a firefighter and had to keep my aerobic capacity up to pass the mandatory annual physical fitness tests for my job. I chose to do the most physical labor at the Abbey--chopping and hauling wood, double digging in the garden with Rev. Kinsei. But it was tough to do that hard work and then plop down on the meditation bench, motionless. It caused me to have severe back pain.

re unsung heroes:Mark Strathern

I heard this story about Mark.


When he was prior at Throssel,he had several devotees.

One of these followers was an itinerant shepherdess,who rode her motorbike between
shepherding gigs,and to Throssel.

She was zooming through Carrshield,the neigh bouring village,one day,skidded,and
came off the bike.She had a nasty head injury,and other wounds.

It was Mark who picked her up and took her to hospital .Later on he made sure she got safely to her sisters house.

She told me the story when. we were on retreat together last year.

On long retreats at Shata, I used to hide in the woods and do yoga. Hindu tradition teaches that body and mind are interconnected ("yoked together")so Yoga asanas are just one part of the meditation process. I never could understand the lack of opportunity and disapproval of physical exercise at Shasta, but I think it had to do with RMJK's aversion to exercise and especially "twisting up like a pretzel" in the traditional sitting meditation position. A good friend of mine was told NOT to run along the fence. It was ok to do "walking meditation" but not to run. The more energetic monks used to walk their dogs along that route to get some exercise.

Carol wrote:

On long retreats at Shata, I used to hide in the woods and do yoga. ... I never could understand the lack of opportunity and disapproval of physical exercise at Shasta,.

Me neither. Perhaps some of the long time monks here might know the answer. It seemed like the longer one spent at Shasta the more the body deteriorated, and the more back problems people had. I saw Tim(Sansho) Runyan in Portland after he had been out a year or two. Before he left he had significant back problems as I recall and had trouble sitting even in a chair. (feel free to correct me, Tim). After being out for a time he took up weight lifting and his back problems disappeared and he had a wondrous physique with a very high level of conditioning and energy.

"Perhaps some of the long time monks here might know the answer."

This long time monk is confused. I remember a bunch of us regularly running round the property every evening. I remember a small group of us meeting for some sort of exercise indoors - after all this time I can't remember exactly what we did. I remember one monk being told by the doctor to take up running, and she did. I remember running to get places all the time - though admittedly it was usually because I was late. I can't remember any disapproval of physical exercise, at least between 1974 and 1985 (Throssel, then Shasta, then Throssel again). So it can't have been universal, and/or someone's memory is at fault after all these years.

Certainly for those lay people on retreat any kind of formal exercise program was not allowed. I was told such by supervising monks. I was told that work was the only form of exercise program that was sanctioned by the Abbey. Being a daily runner during some of that time I found the limitations profoundly frustrating and puzzling. (Latter 70s and early 80s.) And I know my memory is not flawed on that score. Admittedly some resident monks might have had permission to engage in a regular exercise program.

A junior monk once told me that Yoga is a part of their daily regimen. This is ~3 years ago, so I think the present tense is more-or-less warranted.

Nothing furtive or secretive about it... conversation occurred in front of senior monks during social tea on Sunday, as I recall.

FWIW.

My memories...

As early as 73, I was present in the Zendo at Shasta when yoga was publically recommended by a teacher (who has written here) to stretch the ligiments for zazen sittings. He was even demonstating and recommending particular poses for us. The mentioning of yoga at Shasta as a physical aid to sitting became less common after a few years but was not un heard of.

The Shasta exercise allowances have ebbed and wained over the years. Running and the like were certainly Ok in the earlier years for monks but when it was perceived by the "brass" to have become a vehicle by some for avoiding their "Koan", the restrictions arose. The lay folk were almost always always discouraged from deliberate exercise outside of work periods.