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 Not a violet

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Carol

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Posts : 364
Join date : 2009-11-10

PostSubject: Not a violet   Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:42 pm

Hello everyone. This isn't really an introduction since I've been following this forum closely and contributing under the name of Violet since the forum first opened. It's taken a while, but I'll now "come out" as not-Violet. As every gardener knows, Violets really are a shrinking kind of flower -- not one you particularly notice -- but they never go away. They just re-seed themselves year after year and (hopefully) keep growing.

My name actually is Carol Arnold. I was a lay minister for 12 or so years and was an active member of the North Cascades Buddhist Priory for longer than that. I have been reluctant to come out on this forum because for many years I felt great loyalty to several of the monks who I considered to be good friends and good teachers. I also felt some reluctance to criticize anything going on at NCBP because at one time I had a lot of respect for RM Koshin, the prior (or perhaps now abbot), and once considered him to be a friend also.

I finally resigned as a lay minister after what happened to Amalia. But I had been developing serious doubts for several years about the way things were going at NCBP. More on that later . . .

I would like to hear from others who have had contacts with NCBP and perhaps will start a thread devoted to some of the issues that have come up there.

Anyway, hello to all of you who know me as Carol Arnold and thank you to everyone who contributes to this forum for giving courage to those of us who otherwise might still be shrinking violets!
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Howard

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Join date : 2010-06-27
Age : 63
Location : Vancouver

PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:25 pm

Hey Violet/Carol

If you had a shrinking or hard to notice nature, you have not demonstrated it on this forum.
I share some of your conflicted feelings for monks who are friends but who might be causing harm. They are not like friends you can just go up to and say LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING! They are creatures in carefully crafted protective shells and will brook no criticism because these shells are all that keeps their reality intact.
The current lay ministers are warning monks not to visit the OBC connect because of the potential doubt producing content so these OBC shells are not just restricted to the monkhood. This will probably eventually change (thanks to the OBC connect) but not any time soon.
Nice to see you up on the Introduction.
Cheers
Howard
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Rev. Seikai



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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:56 pm

I understand where you all -- the "good will" group are going -- but I would be sorry to lose your input into this forum. I hope those of you who go to the protected/closed forum or Skype call or whatever format turns out to be will stay on this forum. I would like to know what is going on in those discussions, but unfortunately I won't qualify for the protected/closed website.
I would like to see this open website continue to offer a forum for all past and present affiliates with the OBC. Rev. Seikei has boldly gone where no one dared to go and his contribution to this forum has been truly valuable. I would like to see more monks join the discussion. Isn't this what some of us are talking about -- how to bring about communication and sharing between monks and the outside world? I will be sad if the discussion moves off to a protected/closed forum. (written by Violet)


Dear Violet (or Carol),
I think there is no need to worry that any of these discussions will move to a restricted web forum or location in the near future; there is also little likelihood that any other monks besides me will join in this forum. From what I have been able to discern, there is no interest in that happening. I can make a guess as to the primary reason for it, which is that most monks of the OBC simply want to get on with their own training, and prefer not having to be concerned about events that do not immediately concern them. I can sympathize with that quite a bit, actually; I did the same thing for many years, during a time when monks who were not in Rev. Master Jiyu's inner circle were not really exposed to issues and discussions concerning events outside the monastery. RMJK used to say that it was her job "to hold off the world so that monks can train themselves." There was a lot of wisdom in that. Whether it was wise to carry it quite as far as she ultimately did is a matter of opinion.

I would like to see more monks be involved in a wider discussion with the "world"--meaning not just this forum, but other Buddhists in whatever direction as well--but in the meantime there is habit energy to overcome: since it hasn't been done in all the 40 years that the ZMS/OBC has existed up to now, it would take a fairly dramatic change in focus and perspective to change it. Perhpas because the emphasis in Zen teaching is to "withdraw within and reflect upon yourself", by extension, it is not much of a leap of the imagination to extend that principle to a whole monastery, a temple, or a whole monastic order. It is one of those things that one can easily view as being either a strength or a weakness, depending upon your point of view.

At the North Cascades Priory in particular, where your daughter lived, the emphasis has been towards isolation for many years. This does not seem to have had overall healthy results, but again, that is also a matter of opinion. Time will tell what happens there, and to the whole of the OBC; but I do think there is a growing awareness that our order needs to be able to gain a broader perspective, and learn to interact with the world better than we have in the past. And again, time is the main factor: it might take years or decades.

I am trying to generate good will and communication with people outside the order. There isn't much I can do on my own, but it's a start. For the time being, I hope there are a few people with whom I can carry on a reasonably polite conversation, and that doing so is useful.

Respectfully,
Rev. Seikai

(PS: thank you so much for all your help to our temple years ago when we set up our own non-profit corp.)
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:33 am

Carol, thank you for your post. If you'd like to update your username just let us know, but of course it's fine as is.

Best,
Lise
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:15 am

Carol
You have my complete support


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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:55 pm

Rev. Seikai, Thank you for your warm welcome. I appreciate your participation in this forum, especially since some of the comments seem hurtful to you. Bur your perspective is invaluable, and a few of your remarks have triggered some of the most interesting dialogue here. I hope your health continues well. -- Carol
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:39 pm

Michael, thank you for your support. It's helpful!
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:45 pm

Lise, how do I go about changing my user name? Also I can't figure how to post a picture. Can you give some directions?
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:56 pm

Carol, only the admins can change a username and I'm happy to do it
-- when you next log in, please use "Carol" and it should work as
before.

For uploading a picture:

Click on the word "Profile" in blue font up near the top of your
screen (it’s in a row of menu tab options, also in blue font).

Click on the word “Avatar” in blue font (also in a row of
menu tab options beginning with the word “Information”).

Click on the word “Browse”, next to an empty white box (the
corresponding instruction says “Upload an avatar from your computer”.

Navigate to the file on your computer that you want to use
as your picture. Click on it to highlight it.

Click on the button labeled “Save”, below and to the left of
the “Show gallery” button.

This should save the picture as your new avatar. If you have
any difficulty please let me know.
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Laura

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Join date : 2010-07-30
Location : Portland, OR

PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:39 am

Hi Carol,

I spent a fair bit of time at the NCBP when I was a lay minister, and I remember you well. Thanks for stepping out from under the violet cover. Smile
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Nicky



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Join date : 2010-08-30
Age : 74
Location : norfolk uk

PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:23 pm

Hi carol , i did love the name violet, Quite a shock , but OK carol you are ,and my heart goes out to you, to sense what you've been through - as Amalias mother and all the rest of your commitments , i want to know more , say more , but for the moment , love Nicky .
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Henry

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Location : Palm Beach Gardens, FL

PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Hi Carol,
I'm glad you've abandoned your secret identity. What are you going to do with the cape?

I look forward to hearing about your impressions of North Cascades and what concerns you had that precipitated your leaving.
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:29 pm

Hi Henry,
Did I miss something or did you just take off your cape and change your name too? What transformations take place on this forum!!
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:28 am

Hi Carol
just touching base here...how you doing?
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Carol

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:18 pm

Just working up the courage (and hopefully wisdom) to say more on the NCBP thread. Timing doesn't seem just right yet.
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: Not a violet   Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:00 pm

well let me help you a bit here Carol
You are among friends, everyone here is on your side and with you.
Maybe you are trying to say such personel things it is hard to know how to say them, without possibly getting over emotive, or vengeful,
I don't know the right way to say things , however you choose will get the support from everyone.
For now take care we are all thinking of you
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