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 What do you know for sure

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mokuan



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Join date : 2010-08-29
Location : West Linn, Oregon

PostSubject: What do you know for sure   Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:29 pm

It's hard to believe six years ago at this time there was so much to discuss, devour (at least for me) and to digest on OBC Connect regarding Shasta, JK, etc.  This site was my healing elixir, a pungent salve. In just a couple of years I was able to mend the OBC wound; something that I hadn't been able to do on my own since leaving the Abbey.  Thank you everyone!
So when I really began to question my own beliefs and understandings about what I know for sure, I thought I'd come here to you, my friends, my teachers, my healers and ask each of you:  What do you know for sure?
Let me know!
Thanks
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Isan
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Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:33 pm

When you said six years I had to go back and check my introduction post; you're right!  It does feel like a lot of time has past.  It was hard work here sometimes and hopefully the long silence implies that we got what we needed.

As for your question I found this article by Norman Fischer on Lion's Roar helpful...

http://www.lionsroar.com/life-is-tough-six-ways-to-deal-with-it-march-2013/
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Howard

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Age : 62
Location : Vancouver

PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:03 pm

Hey Mokuan

I am probably not much help.

I am cautious about the labeling of any knowing as a certainty. 
Partly because fluidity and chaos seem so universal as to leave little room for any objective certainty but 
mostly for how much certainty itself has justified the harmfulness enacted by humanities tribal like mentalities on ex tribal members.

I try to relate to my certainties with as much meditative perspective as I offer to any other phenomena.
such as....
To the degree that I manipulate any arriving and departing sense data, my enslavement to them continues.
To the degree that I can allow any arriving and departing sense data an unobstructed, un-edited passage, neither slave nor master remains.
 
I guess its a bit pat but I think my best days are where some former certainties have been left behind...

So, how come you didn't mention what you know for sure?
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Lise
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Age : 43

PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:50 pm

hi Mokuan, Isan, Howard and everybody, gosh it's been a long time. I was ready to leave the forum alone because I'd reached a saturation point of thinking about the Abbey and OBC, and that cloud has lifted. Much else to think and talk about now. 

I will take a stab at the question "what do you know for sure". Some things come to mind.

We can trust ourselves to know how we should live, the choices we should make. Our lives are not anybody else's to decide. 

Anger fades if you let it. 

The greatest gift is seeing your child grow up and begin living some of their dreams, big or small. 

About spiritual or religious things, I don't know anything with certainty, never did, and don't care now. The only thing I feel I like I "know" about religions, Buddhism too, is that they are stories that may have truth, or not, and it doesn't matter as long as no one is hurt by the stories or because of them. Humans come to the planet and leave, and if believing some stories while we're here helps us feel better and treat each other better, then good. Beyond that, it's just words. No magic to be found.

L.
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Isan
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PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:51 am

Lise wrote:
hi Mokuan, Isan, Howard and everybody, gosh it's been a long time. I was ready to leave the forum alone because I'd reached a saturation point of thinking about the Abbey and OBC, and that cloud has lifted. Much else to think and talk about now. 

About spiritual or religious things, I don't know anything with certainty, never did, and don't care now. The only thing I feel I like I "know" about religions, Buddhism too, is that they are stories that may have truth, or not, and it doesn't matter as long as no one is hurt by the stories or because of them. Humans come to the planet and leave, and if believing some stories while we're here helps us feel better and treat each other better, then good. Beyond that, it's just words. No magic to be found.

L.

Nice to see you here again Lise :-)  As for stories I thought you might enjoy this blog post by James Ford:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2016/10/telling-religious-stories-fingers-pointing-to-the-moon.html
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Lise
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PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:18 pm

Nice to see you too, Isan Smile and thanks for that. I like it a lot, esp. "There's nothing so dangerous as a good story". Isn't that the truth.

From J. Ford's piece:

"Ultimately our deepest experience, the opening of our hearts and our eyes is something that happens when we let go of every comfort, every story. And I’m pretty sure it’s every story from how mean or generous my parents were to how unworthy or worthy I am, to the loving god or the pernicious fates. At some point we need to let go if we hope to achieve our liberation.
My old Zen teacher once observed how there’s nothing so dangerous as a good idea. Read a good story. There’s nothing so dangerous as a good story. At least if we mistake it for the goal."
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mstrathern
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PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:55 am

Yes, yes, yes, in the end there is nothing to hang on to. All the rest is at best skillful means, but, unfortunately, as often as not just obfuscation. So beware of anyone who holds out beguiling certainties. They are probably fooling themselves, and trying to fool you. The lily of the valley has no certainties, it just is, and arrayed more perfectly than Solomon in all his glory.
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chisanmichaelhughes

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PostSubject: Re: What do you know for sure   Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:17 pm

I can tell you I have had a frantic last period of time, my kids have been brilliant and the highlights have been the youngest represented  south west uk  and was invited to HMS Drake  for a boxing tornament against the marines he ws the youngest there at 17, everyone laughed at him when he was marched to the ring, and cheered when he left as he won on pure skill,  not good for dads blood pressure. he is now a boxing champion  and also eurpean bronze medalist for power lifting and a second son is a gold medalist for a different weight.we ve all been charging on.... but know anything for sure  I dont think so.
I often remember Bill Picards words ...'Eventually sitting is just done' no dropping this dropping that, wearing this wearing that being this being that.Creating a religious empire  err no thank you fighting the marines is maybe a little less delusional but hey whose counting
Mark I hope all is well with you
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