OBC Connect

A site for those with an interest in the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives, past or present, and related subjects.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Jcbaran

avatar

Posts : 1614
Join date : 2010-11-13
Age : 66
Location : New York, NY

PostSubject: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:03 am

Eido Shimano to “offer his sincere regret” in mediated talk with Zen Studies Society sangha

BY LION'S ROAR STAFF| NOVEMBER 5, 2015
On November 2, Eido Shimano, age 83, issued a letter to the Zen Studies Society sangha, addressing that community’s need for healing in the wake of Shimano’s reported misconduct, as documented in Mark Oppenheimer’s The Zen Predator of the Upper East Side. (See also, on Lion’s Roar: “Zen teachers issue open letter confronting abuse’; and  “Confronting Abuse of Power.”) His letter reads, in part:

Quote :
I would like to meet with you face-to-face on Saturday, November 21, to speak openly from the heart. I know that many of you discontinued your practice at the Zen Studies Society, but I hope you will participate in the meeting […] My wish is to express my ignorance and sincere regret for hurting the hearts of the Sangha. It is my hope that through this face-to-face meeting, our heavy burden can be laid to rest, for you and for us all.

This was followed today by a message issued from the Zen Studies Society, signed by its abbot, Shinge Roshi:

Quote :
Dear Sangha and Dharma Friends,

As many of you are aware, Eido Roshi wrote a letter to our Zen community wishing to create an opportunity to speak from the heart and to offer his sincere regret.
This meeting is an important step toward the possibility of healing for those who have experienced harm and for the community as a whole.

Recognizing the sensitivity of the issues, the need for candor, and the need for creating an emotionally safe environment to have these conversations, the Zen Studies Society has engaged a professional facilitator for the meeting, Christine Hickey, who has taught mediation and conflict resolution for 10 years at Syracuse University College of Law, and has given seminars for a variety of professional organizations in the area of conflict resolution and associated topics. Chris is not a member of the Zen Studies Society or a student of Zen Buddhism, and has no connection to either Eido Roshi or to any current or former members, other than being invited to participate as a facilitator.

You will have an opportunity to speak to Eido Roshi in the presence of supportive friends and members.

Eido Roshi will also have opportunities to express his thoughts and feelings both by way of addressing the topic and in response to those who attend.
Chris will help everyone listen deeply to one another by paraphrasing or clarifying when necessary, and by maintaining a respectful structure throughout the afternoon.

You are invited to participate to the extent that you are comfortable. You may wish to attend and simply listen and witness the conversations, or you may wish to speak.

Chris has kindly offered to speak with you before the meeting to answer questions about the process, to help you identify and articulate the key points that you may wish to share at the meeting, and to discuss your fears, hesitations, perceptions, anger, and other emotions. I strongly encourage you to contact Chris soon by email or phone if you are thinking about or planning to attend the meeting. Your conversations with her will be entirely confidential. Speaking with her beforehand will help increase the chances for healing and closure. Chris may be contacted at mchickey@a-znet.com or [url=tel-422-9756]315-422-9756[/url]. She is looking forward to hearing from you.

This meeting is scheduled for Saturday, November 21, 2015, from 2:00 to 5:00 pm at All Souls Unitarian Church, 1157 Lexington Avenue (at 80th St.), New York City.
Back to top Go down
Isan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 916
Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:15 pm

Jcbaran wrote:
Eido Shimano to “offer his sincere regret” in mediated talk with Zen Studies Society sangha

BY LION'S ROAR STAFF| NOVEMBER 5, 2015
On November 2, Eido Shimano, age 83, issued a letter to the Zen Studies Society sangha, addressing that community’s need for healing in the wake of Shimano’s reported misconduct, as documented in Mark Oppenheimer’s The Zen Predator of the Upper East Side. (See also, on Lion’s Roar: “Zen teachers issue open letter confronting abuse’; and  “Confronting Abuse of Power.”)

Well, this is remarkable.  I will be very interested to read a report of what transpires.
Back to top Go down
Isan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 916
Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:17 am

Information about what transpired at the meeting can be found here:

http://www.shimanoarchive.com/NEWindex.html

Based on the comments it looks like my optimism was misplaced.  There are audio files of the meeting at the site.
Back to top Go down
Jcbaran

avatar

Posts : 1614
Join date : 2010-11-13
Age : 66
Location : New York, NY

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:03 pm

Not really surprising.  Decades of denial and wishful thinking is hard to overcome - and then you have the narcissistic leader suffering from nearly incurable grandiosity and self-delusion.  It's an old story, an ancient pattern, and their responses to this situation just prove how unenlightened the leader and group are.  Shasta, Kennett - not so different - same dance.
Back to top Go down
tufsoft



Posts : 64
Join date : 2011-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:44 pm

I think the most chilling bit on the tapes is the bit where Dorris Carlson said "if you can found a Zen monastery in the US don't worry about the money". It seems money still won't get you through the eye of a needle, but it will buy you a pretty big camel.
Back to top Go down
http://www.tufsoft.com
Stan Giko

avatar

Posts : 353
Join date : 2011-06-08
Location : Lincolnshire. U.K.

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:37 pm

Nothing much seems to change on the `discredited guru` front.
Andrew Cohen is still in denial just like Shimano.  He`s really sorry but you can tell that it`s himself that he`s really sorry for, for getting caught out after flying high and crashing hard.  He now wants to start again and be a `better person` as he put it.  Still thinks he can `make a difference` and wheedle his way back to his former position.  Totally clueless.  Just like shimano.  When reality is not seen, one then denies and projects.  The two always go together...there is no choice about it.  Reality is not seen but interpreted according to one`s conditioning.  (vasanas).

The whole point of a true and valid teaching is to put you and not the guru/teacher in the driving seat. Although for a while one `needs` a teacher, one needs to have a completelly impersonal teaching or means of knowledge that allows one to evaluate the teacher dispassionately.  One has to hold the teacher`s feet to the fire to see if he/she is walking the walk and not just talking the talk.  otherwise...well, we know what can happen !

If a person qualifies themselves for knowledge by leading a `dharmic` (righteous) lifestyle with a stable and clear mind, it should not be taking 30 years or more to come to the point of self knowledge.
From that point, there is no more seeking as one has erased all doubts for him or her self by the knowledge that the teaching imparts.  It just remains to `stand` in that knowledge at all times until one`s ego realizes that it`s safe and not going anywhere.  It was always just who we thought we were. just an object in us after all.  It takes as long as it takes.

The way that Shimano and Andrew`s `neo`s seem to do things is based on an unhealthy understanding of the parent/child archetype.  It`s more suited for primitive religions than the teaching of non-duality or zen/enlightenment.
Parents should start weaning their children from a very early age with the knowledge of what `weaning` really means.  They should not `need` the child and it seems obvious that most of these teachers /gurus, never worked that out.
They desperatelly need the attention which means they never had enough love when they were young. so, love from others is crucial to their self esteem.  The way Shimano and Cohen abused women is probably related to their mothers etc.  they are rather primitive persons emotionally : full of Anger, Grandiosity and Conceit.  As they feel so compelled to feel in control, it shows up their self esteem issues.  They need to feel Big in order to make others feel Small and Ignorant...like a child.
Classic denial and projection.  It`s so predictable when seen.

The Archetype should be based on friendship as in the Buddha`s teaching days. A realationship of equals.
The Teachers should have nothing to gain as at this point, they should be self-satisfied and they should be smart. smart enough to not want the responsibility of the teaching on their shoulders personally.  The teachings do the real work and not the teachers.  The teachers should just skillfully and dispassionately work the levers and be indifferent as to whether people `get enlightened` or not.  That is none of their d**mn business.  It is not up to them.  That is up to the `total of all the karmas` and it does not care about our enlightenment.  There should be no stress for the teacher nor for the student/seeker.  For each of his or her students, the teacher should be teaching him/herself out of a job as soon as possible.

Sad to say, there is another angle here and that involves the role of the student.  We can`t put all the blame for everything that goes bad on the teachers...and usually take all the credit for the good stuff for ourselves.
Although we have to put faith in the teacher and the teaching early on, it can`t be blind faith.  It has to be faith pending the outcome of the teaching and the behaviour of the teacher.
How many of us entered the monastery knowing  exactly what we were signing up for ?  How were we going to objectivelly monitor our progress to see if we were going wrong or not. Were we given an expectation that we should get enlightened ? if not, why not ?  Just what were we signing up for in reality ?
I asked these questions a couple of years ago on this forum and various monks from the past said.....good question Stan ! I was surprised and somewhat dismayed to find zero answers from good intelligent people who had been working in the spiritual salt mines for forty years !!
I hate to use the `gullible` word but, sometimes I think that we deserve what we get if we don`t use our discriminating faculties.  How else does one learn at this point if not by a dose of suffering ? something`s got to turn a guy around !

And that `us and them` thing.  it`s the government, it`s the education system, it`s the Republicans/ liberals, ....mom and pop.  Please !  Just more denial and projection.  Where exactly are `them` ?  Fess up guys...we got suckered and we don`t like it. Can`t blame anyone else.....
What`s really bothering us ?  It`s simply that we don`t like what we`ve got now.  we want things to be different....better, different.  It`s a point that can`t be reached and shows we can`t accept things as they are.
Till we do, we gotta `suck it up`.....
Back to top Go down
Kozan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 668
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 67
Location : Sonoma County CA

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:51 pm

Right on the mark, Stan!
Back to top Go down
Stan Giko

avatar

Posts : 353
Join date : 2011-06-08
Location : Lincolnshire. U.K.

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:36 pm

Thanks Steve.  I almost achieved lift off on a major rant  Ha ha ....   take it easy.  :-)
Back to top Go down
Howard

avatar

Posts : 554
Join date : 2010-06-27
Age : 62
Location : Vancouver

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:29 pm

Nice posting Stan.

Just some noodling back.

The fame aspect is the part that so often seems to be understated when talking about folks of notoriety trying to change. There is a compounding of a delusion that I fear we all have our part to play in.

While Fame can temporarily assuage much of the inadequacy inherent in the human condition, fame repeatedly demonstrates itself to also be one of the most relentlessly addictive forces to touch human beings. Plus, society routinely seems oblivious to the tweakings of those caught in it's web so this addiction doesn't even result in social censure.

Why would you trust a master ensnared in this way, to overcome what so many other addicts have been unable to free themselves from, especially when society seems so unable to face the corrupting inertia of fame addictions and perhaps the susceptibility that any of us might also share in, if we were so tested.

Zen schools do recognize the issues that chief juniors must practice with at the end of their term, plummeting from the heady heights of administrative control back to peon status again, but it seems that such a teaching would do well to be periodically reenacted for every practitioner, regardless of their seniority, through out their entire spiritual career.
Back to top Go down
http://hrmitchell54@yahoo.com
Stan Giko

avatar

Posts : 353
Join date : 2011-06-08
Location : Lincolnshire. U.K.

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:03 pm

Hey Howard...long time no see !  Smile

Trying to figure out what you mean here ...

" The fame aspect is the part that so often seems to be understated when talking about folks of notoriety trying to change. There is a compounding of a delusion that I fear we all have our part to play in. "

"fame" ?  "notoriety" ? same thing with just a different judgment call aren`t they ?
When things are going well for you it`s fame. when you screw up, it`s notoriety.  assuming you`re found out, that is.
We only compound a delusion if we contribute to it but, in no way do we have to.  If we put the guru/teacher in the driving seat, then yes, we give up our autonomy and integrity and are open to whatever comes our way.  It`s why I mentioned earlier that faith in the teacher must not be blind faith and dependent on how the teacher  behaves.  There`s no need to play any part in a teacher`s fame or status at all.  it`s asking for trouble.

" While Fame can temporarily assuage much of the inadequacy inherent in the human condition, fame repeatedly demonstrates itself to also be one of the most relentlessly addictive forces to touch human beings. "


Depends on what you think the "human condition" is.  If you see yourself as limited, small and incomplete, then sure, you will try to deny your painful condition and project a new and acceptable one that makes others seem smaller than you.  If those others object, then you have to bully or schmooze them to keep them in place and in Ignorance and in awe of you.  Yeah it`s addictive, because it seems to temporarilly work and offers relief.  Sure as heck though, the day will dawn when the structure can hold no more.  then it`s uh oh time when the whatsit hits the fan.

" While Fame can temporarily assuage much of the inadequacy inherent in the human condition, fame repeatedly demonstrates itself to also be one of the most relentlessly addictive forces to touch human beings."

Well....it is and it isn`t.  fame no more touches `human beings` than fire burns you.  sure you get burned but fire doesn`t really `reach out` to you. nor does fame.  you have to activelly participate to get hooked.  The greater the sense of low self esteem, the greater the addiction grows.

"  society routinely seems oblivious to the tweakings of those caught in it's web so this addiction doesn't even result in social censure."

Western societies in particular. they are not Dharma based but desire based due to people not knowing how to value themselves.  Is it any surprise ?

" Why would you trust a master ensnared in this way, to overcome what so many other addicts have been unable to free themselves from, especially when society seems so unable to face the corrupting inertia of fame addictions and perhaps the susceptibility that any of us might also share in, if we were so tested. "

Short answer....I wouldn`t.  and nor should anyone else.

" Zen schools do recognize the issues that chief juniors must practice with at the end of their term, plummeting from the heady heights of administrative control back to peon status again, "


Ha ha ....you`re jokin` right ?  "heady heights` of being a chief junior ?  sorry...good job I had my pampers on !  the old prostate ain`t what it used to be if I laugh too hard Wink
This is stuff for kids to deal with...like being a `prefect` in a school.  I know, lots of people never grow out of it.  heads of corporations not moved on from childhood and such like. screaming and yelling.  best not to think about the jokers who are running our countries..... scary !  Ha ha ...

" but it seems that such a teaching would do well to be periodically reenacted for every practitioner, regardless of their seniority, through out their entire spiritual career. "

Not many Benny !  basic training 101.  Dharma trumps Enlightenment every time.  or as that Dogen guy put it... `next to good manners, enlightenment is the most important thing`.  and he wasn`t talking about how you hold your tea cup.
Give me a good wholesome person living a humble and righteous life over some flash false guru anytime.  career doesn`t even come into it.

sorry...I screwed up the quoting thing and it`s to late at night to fiddle with it.
Back to top Go down
Howard

avatar

Posts : 554
Join date : 2010-06-27
Age : 62
Location : Vancouver

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:02 pm

Hey Stan
To help in your figuring...

The human condition that I was speaking of was...the manner in which we response to our innate sense of separation from the rest of existence.

When I look at teachers being so reluctant to genuinely address their own manipulative behaviors or perceptual errors, I think I am just seeing the fear of a loss of fame and what that has come to mean for them.  Enlightenment (your word) doesn't even enter the picture.

Compounded delusion is just delusion with a misconstrued source, so that it becomes very difficult  to directly address. While it is reasonable to think that the issue to really address is the perceptual mistakes, it is the addiction to their own status that has allowed those errors to occur and until that is faced, little real change should be expected.

Sorry to challenge the pampers. I was just saying that Zen does recognizes that such a problem does needs to be addresed but mistakenly seems to think that  once addressed it no longer needs to be guarded against arising again.
Back to top Go down
http://hrmitchell54@yahoo.com
Stan Giko

avatar

Posts : 353
Join date : 2011-06-08
Location : Lincolnshire. U.K.

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:07 am

Hey Howard...back again.

I don`t think we are really talking at cross purposes.  As I see it, we are talking about teachers gone bad and their addiction to status and it`s trappings.  more specifically, the fear of the loss of the said trappings.

Addiction to status is just the same in the `spiritual` world as in the secular world. possibly worse in the spiritual world as an extra layer of `being spiritual` can bestow a juicy arrogance.
I brought the `enlightenment` word in because teachers are often mistakenly and unquestioningly put on a pedestal. They are often handed their status undeservedly because they are thought to be `more enlightened`, which is a REALLY high status position.  hardly surprising that `undercooked` teachers fall for it.

The student needs to be `cooked` as well though. not just gullible, feeling small, and fawning for every crumb of self esteem.  There needs to be some sort of qualification for both sides for the whole thing to work.  there needs to be a tool kit of teachings which address each lack of qualifications.  a discriminating mind,  an open/reasonable mind, a dispassionate mind, a patient mind, motivated, balanced etc.   The teacher needs these qualifications in spades.  There really should be no room for a teacher without these qualifications and no excuse is good enough.  It`s not rocket science but one has to keep one`s eyes opened and remain focused.

Ok, so I nearly peed myself re the chief junior status thing but really, come on.  just think about those two words trying to mean one thing.  Chief and Junior.  how divisive is that ?  it`s building duality into the system right from the start. this really needs seeing through.

If you were saying that zen doesn`t adequatelly address the problem then I agree.  `Guarding against` is well and good but it`s the qualifications for the mind that `seeks the way` that really do the work.  not enough teachings in the tool box i`m afratd.
Back to top Go down
Isan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 916
Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:35 am

Stan Giko wrote:
The student needs to be `cooked` as well though. not just gullible, feeling small, and fawning for every crumb of self esteem.  There needs to be some sort of qualification for both sides for the whole thing to work.  there needs to be a tool kit of teachings which address each lack of qualifications.  a discriminating mind,  an open/reasonable mind, a dispassionate mind, a patient mind, motivated, balanced etc.   The teacher needs these qualifications in spades.  There really should be no room for a teacher without these qualifications and no excuse is good enough.  It`s not rocket science but one has to keep one`s eyes opened and remain focused.

Would someone with those qualifications even need a teacher?  It seems to me that it is precisely those without such maturity that seek out teachers.  Along with their desire to study Buddhism (or whatever) is the need to grow-up.  They have deficits and need "re-parenting".  That was certainly true for me and many others at Shasta.  A teacher needs to be able to help the gullible, etc, and not take advantage of them.
Back to top Go down
Stan Giko

avatar

Posts : 353
Join date : 2011-06-08
Location : Lincolnshire. U.K.

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:38 pm

Hey Isan,


Quote :
Would someone with those qualifications even need a teacher?  It seems to me that it is precisely those without such maturity that seek out teachers.

That particular `someone` is the one who is finally ready for a teacher and a teaching.  Those qualifications are by no means the `full list` and everybody has at least some of them to a degree.  they just need developing to the maximum.  There are plenty more.

Take the qualification of an open mind.  normally, when someone makes a statement for example, by the time the person is part way through, we are already formulating an opinion of it....that`s before the person has finished talking !   `oh, that doesn`t seem right...or oh, I don`t like that, it must be wrong and before the speaker has finished, we`ve generally decided if he`s right or wrong.   What do we base this decision on...our past experiences, how things have worked out in similar circumstances etc.  it`s virtually our conditioning.
This process was in action many experiences ago so taking this route, there is nothing REAL to base our decision on.  it`s ignorance that informs our decision for the most part and sad to say, we take Ignorance to be Truth.  we actually believe our Ignorance.

It takes a mature open minded person to put off his/her opinions until the speaker has finished. Then...what has been said should be considered `Dispassionatelly` to see if it conforms to reason as can best be ascertained. failing that, other questions should be asked. A `discriminating` mind is needed because life is rarely what it seems to be.

What normally happens, is that people listen through the filter of their conditioning (vasanas) on both sides. they don`t really hear each other and they don`t answer the others` questions.   is it any surprise that confusion reigns between people ?

If one doesn`t have these mental qualifications in place to a reasonable degree, how can one `hear` the teaching or the teacher ?  How can you sit in meditation without the wish for it to finish because you can`t maintain a `Stable` and undisturbed mind ?  Most people meditate for the purpose of stress relief.  they do the minimum because they don`t love it and find it difficult.  ok, it`s not the kiss of death by any means but it will not work without support of the other qualifications.  from what I have seen, this maturing seems to happen for most of us in middle to old age.  I`m sure it would be quicker if the teachings were more thorough and encompassing.  Not our fault !

So yes, someone with these qualifications does need a teacher because we can`t teach ourselves at first. we are at the mercy of our conditioning and just can`t or don`t listen or hear.  The qualifications only make us ready to understand and assimilate the truth when it is heard.  The Buddha said his teaching was for `hearers` and the scriptures often start with "thus I have heard".  it`s down to the listeners to hear. listening and hearing are not the same thing here.

Self knowledge is the most difficult knowledge to acquire because it is so hard to accept due to it being so counter-intuitive.  What we know about ourselves is wrong and removing those pesky vasanas or conditioning is plain hard unremitting work until the back of habitual Ignorance is broken.  Only a mature person (mentally qualified) can succeed with this work.  It`s why there are plenty of seekers but few finders.

Those that don`t have the qualities mentioned can indeed seek out a teacher but is it going to work out without mental maturity ?  it can be but a lot of blood sweat and tears will have to be gone through to get to the `easy` times. 
The qualified people who need a teaching and teacher go through the training because mental liberation is the highest value for them.  Everything is secondary and the qualifications are NOT the same as the teaching.
You said...

"  Along with their desire to study Buddhism (or whatever) is the need to grow-up.  They have deficits and need "re-parenting"

Well, just what is this "growing-up" ? 
For " re-parenting"  I would substitute "weaning ".  weaning away from dependence on the parents so as to be able to `grow-up` in a healthy and mature way.  This also involves de-programming the unintentional Ignorance of the parents that we swallowed whole when we were too young and dependent to know better.
Back to top Go down
Isan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 916
Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:10 am

Stan Giko wrote:
Hey Isan,


Quote :
Would someone with those qualifications even need a teacher?  It seems to me that it is precisely those without such maturity that seek out teachers.

So yes, someone with these qualifications does need a teacher because we can`t teach ourselves at first. we are at the mercy of our conditioning and just can`t or don`t listen or hear.  The qualifications only make us ready to understand and assimilate the truth when it is heard.  The Buddha said his teaching was for `hearers` and the scriptures often start with "thus I have heard".  it`s down to the listeners to hear. listening and hearing are not the same thing here.

Fair enough Stan.  I believe what matters most about this is the underlying premise.  What you're describing is what I would call a mentoring relationship which is primarily horizontal in nature and completely unlike the hierarchical teacher/student relationship put forth by Japanese Zen.  Was there ever a time when the teacher/student relationship in Buddhism was primarily horizontal?  Based on all of the popular literature I've read about Zen, and Buddhism in general, the answer is no (I'm not a Buddhist scholar though and I hope those more knowledgeable will speak to this).  It seems to me that the mentoring model is a relatively new development.
Back to top Go down
david.



Posts : 124
Join date : 2012-07-29

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:58 pm

just finished trying to listen to it all. Very poor audio quality so almost impossible for me to get a real sense of it. I heard what i could, and basically heard it as Genjo did. It is impossible for me to get much of a glimpse of what it was actually like to be there.

My main feeling is one of sadness. I don't think this tape seems to achieve very much, or deal with many of the main issues.

As I understand it, sexual relations with women was only part of a tyranical reign by eido and his wife. They used his power to demean women and men as much as possible, according to witnesses I have read. The sexuality Shinge describes doesnt sound so abusive, and maybe even mutual from her point of view, though I struggle to hear all of what she was saying.

So there was little confrontation of eido with his behaviour that I could hear. There even seemed to be a fair amount of praise of him. did other people hear it like this?

I am also pretty clear from the 100 or so hours I have spent reading witness accounts of eido, that he didnt really ever used physical force. And I am also not so naive psychologically as to not see that he is just a small cog in the game of playing out early childhood patterns going on there by everyone. We all play out in our adult lives what our parents taught us in infancy. When the research figures are that 1 in 2 people joining a religious order have been sexually abused as children, and 95% of child sex abuse is in or around the home, there will have been a lot of people who's subconscious drive to tell their story will have needed to find or create someone like eido.

As my counselling teacher said to me 30 years ago, we all choose partners like our parents, and if they are not quite like our parents, well we can soon correct that...

The shame of Zen and Buddhism is that there is absolutely no understanding in it of even the basics of how who we really think we are is formed in early infancy, and how the way to resolve this and be enlightened is to go towards that infant with love and and an attitude of listening and allowing. 

There is no way round or out to find out who we really are. The only way is through. Through who we subconsciously believe ourselves to be. There is no teacher or student in this, that is just more mummy and daddy games. There is only me. 

It is for me to be willing to love and allow into conscious awareness a small child that I've imprisoned within, and walked away from, throwing away the key. Trying to pretend anything else is just more mind-stuff that makes up the prison walls. 

And if I do the above for a good 3-4 years, probably more, with all the emotional falling to bits that entails, then I may begin to glimpse that I am in fact not the child, but the love and allowing into awareness.

Every now and again i sit with someone who after many years of crying out the despair of their inner child has that first real dissolving of who they really are. For them it feels like the clouds of a lifetime suddenly not there...
Back to top Go down
Kozan
Admin
avatar

Posts : 668
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 67
Location : Sonoma County CA

PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:36 am

David, well said--as always.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says   

Back to top Go down
 
Eido Shimano to "offer his sincere regrets"..... we shall see what he actually says
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» When Your Guru Goes Bad - an essay by Zen teacher Brad Warner
» Job Offer Prayer Request
» Any regrets?
» Dick Cheney said: he has no regrets about Iraq
» any regrets out there

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
OBC Connect :: OBC Connect :: The Reading Corner-
Jump to: